Septic Party Seeks the Gay Vote - Page 2 - boards.ie
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04-03-2012, 15:54   #16
Pacifist Pigeon
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Actions speak louder than words.
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04-03-2012, 16:06   #17
Conor30
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Originally Posted by floggg View Post
Seriously? Whatever about their past wrongs, they come out and make a loud and positive declaration in support of LGB rights and all people can do is b1tch and moan?

How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

Not everybody in FF was a crony who ruined politics. There is a new generation off FF politicians emerging and I'd rather spend my time applauding good work that they do (while criticising the bad) then harping on about past wrongs.

FF were always going to move in this direction as the country did. I am just surprised that they did it so soon and is hopefully a sign that the younger more progressive wing of the party is coming to the fore.

That makes it 3 of the 4 largest parties more or less in favour of marriage equality which is amazing.
They're just making the point, that, after all their years in power ( and being against gay marriage), it's funny how they're now claiming to support gay marriage. It's not difficult to see some cynicism in this, even if one if a FF supporter. FF have always been populist, in my opinion. So maybe the fact that a substantial majority of Irish people support gay marriage, that FF feel they can safely jump on the bandwagon.
Mind you, Labour claim to support gay marriage - we still await them to actually do something about that too!

The fact that FF state that they support marriage equality is to be applauded, of course.

I suppose it's called politics for a reason!

Last edited by Conor30; 04-03-2012 at 16:09.
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04-03-2012, 16:06   #18
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Senator Averil Power is also introducing a bill to get rid of the employment equality exemption for lgb people in schools/hospitals etc - she's leaving out the T so yes they want equality for some but not others
At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.
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04-03-2012, 17:11   #19
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At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.
Indeed. Hopefully the T will follow but it's still progress.
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04-03-2012, 17:38   #20
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Well done Fianna Fáil for jumping on the bandwagon. Yes it's good but they won't be getting my vote EVER. Never forget. Never forgive.
How christian of you. But don't worry your hardline stance on FF is totally unnecessary. They are a small fringe morally bankrupt party now looking to suck up a few votes.
You have nothing to fear Dr Baltar - the government have no intentions of legalising gay marriage anytime soon.
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04-03-2012, 17:44   #21
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How christian of you. But don't worry your hardline stance on FF is totally unnecessary. They are a small fringe morally bankrupt party now looking to suck up a few votes.
You have nothing to fear Dr Baltar - the government have no intentions of legalising gay marriage anytime soon.
Really? They have committed to looking at it as part of the Constitutional Convention, and all recent opinion polls show strong support for its introduction. It's a matter of when not if
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04-03-2012, 17:52   #22
Joeytheparrot
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Originally Posted by Conor30 View Post
At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.
No - it's a very cynical move to look for the so called pink vote while deliberately leaving transgender employees out in case of controversy - Equality for some but not for others is not equality.
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04-03-2012, 17:53   #23
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I wouldn't necessarily be so sceptical about whether they believe this is the right move or are just hoping to gain political mileage.

Ogra FF passed a similar motion two years ago or so. Most of the younger generation are pro marriage equality and this motion is probably at least partially a reflection of thr fact that the younger and more progressive elements of FF are coming to the fore as the party rebuilds.

Even if they are doing this as a cynical ploy for votes, it's still an exteemy significant move in my book. Unlike labour, who have an urban and more socially liberal support base, FF have a traditionally conservative support. FF coming out in favour of marriage equality will bring some of those supporters along with them.

It also I would hope put more pressure on FG on the marriage equality issue. Now the three biggest parties in the Dail are pro-marriage equality. FG will be under increased pressur to take a declared position, and they may not want to cast themselves as firmly anti-marriage equality when they know from recent surveys that the majority of the electorate, and particularly the younger electorate, are in favour of it.

I think it's also significant that FF are taking a declared position which is contrary to the catholic churches position. It's a fairly significant reflectin of the churches diminishing influence, when they are willing to risk a "catholic" backlash. I'm told Labour and FG were taken aback by the amount of flack they got over the Vatican embassy closing, which might have deterred politicians from taking any contrary stances for a while.
Fianna Failed is surely no longer one of the biggest parties in the Dail? FG then Labour then Sinn Fein and then the collection of independants could probably out-vote the party that brought Ireland to its knees! Young or old members, they will never change their old ideals and the young crowd are well trained in party politics and defending the party but they are wasting their time,

The Republican Party were outed as traitors!
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04-03-2012, 17:53   #24
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Really? They have committed to looking at it as part of the Constitutional Convention, and all recent opinion polls show strong support for its introduction. It's a matter of when not if
emm - I don't see the government showing any signs of supporting a position that you claim is supported by the majority - why would politicans take such a contrary position I wonder?
Poorly constructed poll questions and a naive benign understanding of the concept of gay marriage I suspect. Meanwhile, those in power avoid the issue as they see no gain from it - just like that earlier poster who said never forget and never forgive - I don't see the LGBT community as an attractive constituency for mainstream political parties apart from fringe parties like FF "whoring" for support
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04-03-2012, 18:24   #25
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Originally Posted by mango salsa View Post
really? that's not my reading of it

http://www.cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2...BILL-2012.docx
It may have been changed AGAIN. Link isn't working right now, I'll try again later.


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Originally Posted by Conor30 View Post
At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.
Both the Labour Minister for Education and the FG Minister for Health have stated they want the exemption for their respective areas removed (Quinn ages ago, Reilly in the Medical Times a few weeks ago). It'll be gone, properly, without any FF intervention shortly.
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04-03-2012, 18:26   #26
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emm - I don't see the government showing any signs of supporting a position that you claim is supported by the majority - why would politicans take such a contrary position I wonder?
As stated, its very much on the agenda for the Constitutional Convention and is in the legislation pipeline anyway should the AG decide that it doesn't need a referendum.
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04-03-2012, 19:02   #27
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As stated, its very much on the agenda for the Constitutional Convention and is in the legislation pipeline anyway should the AG decide that it doesn't need a referendum.
so a sure thing then??? What was all the "noise" about so?
Is the Fine Gael parlimentary party in favour of legislation for gay marriage?
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04-03-2012, 19:10   #28
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so a sure thing then??? What was all the "noise" about so?
Is the Fine Gael parlimentary party in favour of legislation for gay marriage?
The FG parliamentary party is against many things that they're going to be doing to ensure they stay in government.

If the AG rules that its not against the Constitution, expect the single line that mentions mixed-gender to be deleted from the Civil Registration Act, 2004 and legislation to allow the transfer of civil partnerships to civil marriages and to repeal the civil partnership elements of the Civil Partnership & Certain Rights & Obligations of Cohabitants Act, 2010.

If the AG rules that it is either obviously or possibly against the Constitution, it'll go to the Constitutional Convention to discuss whether to put it as one of the many referenda that could entail and then its down to the people.

There's no way that it being found to be unconstitutional (which, I must add, it has NOT been found to be despite FF's insistance) can be worked around without a referendum.
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04-03-2012, 19:30   #29
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The FG parliamentary party is against many things that they're going to be doing to ensure they stay in government.

If the AG rules that its not against the Constitution, expect the single line that mentions mixed-gender to be deleted from the Civil Registration Act, 2004 and legislation to allow the transfer of civil partnerships to civil marriages and to repeal the civil partnership elements of the Civil Partnership & Certain Rights & Obligations of Cohabitants Act, 2010.

If the AG rules that it is either obviously or possibly against the Constitution, it'll go to the Constitutional Convention to discuss whether to put it as one of the many referenda that could entail and then its down to the people.

There's no way that it being found to be unconstitutional (which, I must add, it has NOT been found to be despite FF's insistance) can be worked around without a referendum.
Are you confident of either situation? (Genuinely interested in your perspective. I am not gay and have been anti gay marriage but not trolling here)
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04-03-2012, 19:34   #30
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Cynical vote getting excercise IMO. It was at Labour's insistence that homosexuality was decriminalised in 1993 (David Norris' case also was a factor) and it was at the Green's insistence Civil Partnership was introduced.

Actions speak louder than words or 'policy documents' that will never be implemented cause everyone hates you for betraying our nation. What does matter is what you do and FF is responsible for the constitution, a sexist, misogynistic document. Also FF has been in government 62 of the last 80 years and did not do a tap for LGBT rights, ever.

Dont be fooled folks.
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