[BenThere]

Hi all,

I'm a fairly casual runner. I'm 43, 183cm and 94kg. I've had hypertension (high blood pressure) for 15 years so the lifestyle and diet has improved a lot over the years as has the level of exercise all with the aim of keeping weight off and staying fit so as to keep the blood pressure medication to a minimum.

My target for 2012 is to run 1,000 km being a 50:50 combination of early morning sessions on the treadmill in the gym and outdoor runs. I do 2 x 6km in the gym Mon and Wed mornings and try to do 2 x 6.5km's outdoors Thursday evening and Sat/Sun afternoons. I also do 3 general weights sessions each week on the mornings I don't run.

I did the Marlay park 8km in less than 52 minutes last week and actually felt fairly good afterwards. It was tough but I wasn't totally fu**ed at the end which was a nice surprise.

In the two weeks before Marlay park I had started feeling heavy legs on some runs and felt like I just couldn't get one foot in front of another. Following some advice I rested up and Marlay park went fine.

I figured I needed to rest up after Marlay park so did nothing until yesterday morning when I did 5km on the treadmill as a fairly easy pace. I had wanted to do 7km but I felt fairly knackered so cut it short.

I went out this afternoon to do 6.5km and had to cut it down to 4km as my legs really felt terrible.

Am I just imagining this or is there something I should be doing to ensure my legs recover as quickly as possible after a run and are as fresh as possible as soon as possible?

Could it be a deficiency of some sort in my diet? (Eggs and ham for brekkie, tuna and wholewheat biscuits for lunch and meat and two veg for dinner would be the norm)

Could it be my trainers? I get them recommended and fitted by Amphibian King in Bray so I'm sure it's not their quality or suitability but maybe they need changing. I've had them just about 12 months so they'd have around 500km on them. I didn't do as much exercise last year as I'm doing this year.

This is really frustrating me so any and all suggestions and feedback is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Ben

[dahat]

Try reduce your running and maybe get a full blood work up done to check for anything that may be hidden...

[BobMac104]

Maybe try cutting down on the meat intake.

[rom]

How fast do you run each session ? Weight comes off more from running slowly than running hard as running slowly you are burning fat also you won't be as wrecked. use a hr monitor I have lost close to 15 kg over the last year or 2 and slow running is the way to go. You should be able to hold a conversation when running. For me starting that was just a tad faster than fast walking. I also thought I was deficient in A B C so I started to take loads of vitamins and supplements which caused further problems and actually slowed down weight loss. You might be trying to run the fast you can all the time like I was and then be wrecked as thats what they do in the rocky movie montage etc. But slowing down to a speed that you think you can run all day is when you will really see the difference. Its all about aerobic fitness to bring down your systolic and diastolic so that your in the normal range.

[corny]

Originally Posted by rom

Weight comes off more from running slowly than running hard as running slowly you are burning fat

Thats a misnomer. Your body burns free fatty acids in the blood for energy not stored fat reserves. 1000 calories of hard or 1000 calories of slow running. There's no difference.

[Clearlier]

I don't know what's causing the heavy legs (there are medical things that can cause this so if you really can't explain it a visit to the GP might be in order). A couple of questions/thoughts do come to mind though that might help you work it out:

How's your sleep and sleep quality?
Do you vary your diet? - it does seem pretty high in animal protein.
Do you vary your training from week to week?
Is there any progression to your training? - sort of linked to the previous question.
Any recent lifestyle changes? baby, work etc.
Have you got any goals? might motivation be a problem?

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted quickly.

[BenThere]

Thanks all for the feedback.

I'm actually running as slow as possible, I sometimes feel like I'm going so slow its actually harder to run as it feels un naturally slow. No matter what I do it seems 6 minutes 20 seconds is my natural pace.

Is that too fast? Given my height (183 cm) I've write a long stride so I'm bound to have a faster 'slow' pace than average.

Ben

[Clearlier]

Originally Posted by BenThere

Thanks all for the feedback.

I'm actually running as slow as possible, I sometimes feel like I'm going so slow its actually harder to run as it feels un naturally slow. No matter what I do it seems 6 minutes 20 seconds is my natural pace.

Is that too fast? Given my height (183 cm) I've write a long stride so I'm bound to have a faster 'slow' pace than average.

Ben

Probably too slow rather than too fast actually. You're 4 running times a week so you can definitely do one/two of those a bit faster.

Next time you're running outside you could try doing some diagonals:
- warm up by running to a football/rugby/GAA pitch (10 mins minimum).
- Starting from a corner run to the far corner at a fast controlled pace i.e. moving way quicker than you normally do but not sprinting
- jog the length of the goal/try line until you get to the other corner
- repeat a couple of times!
- walk/jog back to where you started from as a warm down

It's just a fartlek session but it adds a bit of variety to what sounds like a fairly one-paced training regimen.

Funnily enough the best male runners in the world are almost all pretty short!

P.S. I've just noticed that you did mention a couple of goals in your original message. How have you been changing your training to try and meet those?

[rom]

Originally Posted by BenThere

Thanks all for the feedback.

I'm actually running as slow as possible, I sometimes feel like I'm going so slow its actually harder to run as it feels un naturally slow. No matter what I do it seems 6 minutes 20 seconds is my natural pace.

Is that too fast? Given my height (183 cm) I've write a long stride so I'm bound to have a faster 'slow' pace than average.

Ben

The only way really to see if you are running too slow or too fast is to wear a HR monitor and see what reading it gives you as depends from person to person a lot. People have said that fast running calories and slow running calories are the same which is true. Now I ran over 1000 miles last year and I had a 0 KG weight loss from Jan 2011 to Jan 2012. Nearly all of this consisted of running as fast as I can. Since Jan this year I have lost 5KG which is more than my total yoyo lost last year. My avarage mileage has increased from 20 miles a week fast to 40 miles a week slow. http://weighttraining.about.com/od/f...a/fat_burn.htm

eg. Walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 180 calories used -- 108 calories of fat burned

Running on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 400 calories used -- 120 calories of fat burned

[BenThere]

Thanks Clearlier, appreciate your insightful questions.

Answers -

Originally Posted by Clearlier

I don't know what's causing the heavy legs (there are medical things that can cause this so if you really can't explain it a visit to the GP might be in order). A couple of questions/thoughts do come to mind though that might help you work it out:

How's your sleep and sleep quality?

I get an average of 6.5 hours sleep per night regardless of whether its weekdays or weekends. I typically aim to hit to sack around 10:30 but it's usually nearer 11 by the time my head hits the pillow. M-F the alarm goes off at 5:45 for the gym at 6am. Even at weekends, regardless of what time I hit the sack I still tend to wake up naturally around 7am or 7:30am latest and once awake I stay awake.

Sleep quality - I sometimes struggle to get to sleep and can lie awake for an hour or two. Really depends on what's happening work wise, family wise, what I watched on TV before hitting the sack, whether or not I had a coffee in the afternoon (very rare) or whatever. Usual stuff.

Originally Posted by Clearlier

Do you vary your diet? - it does seem pretty high in animal protein.

My diet is fairly stable. I love eggs and meat and try to minimise carbs but I still have my fair share of them via wholegrain toast and butter with the eggs and ham in the morning and rice or pasta with dinner in the evenings. Probably don't eat enough fresh fruit and veg

Originally Posted by Clearlier

Do you vary your training from week to week?

No, not really. I do a weights programme 3 mornings a week, run 6.5km/50 minutes on the treadmill 2 mornings a week (recently introduced some intervals/hills) and get out for a couple of runs around my local area Thursday evening and once over the weekend if possible.

Originally Posted by Clearlier

Is there any progression to your training? - sort of linked to the previous question.

No, not really. I have registered for a number of 8km and 10km fun run type events (Marlay Park, Wicklow Gaol in a few weeks, Phoenix Park 10km in April etc) so I have something to aim for and motivate myself to train for but that's about it.

Originally Posted by Clearlier

Any recent lifestyle changes? baby, work etc.
Have you got any goals? might motivation be a problem?

Na, things are fairly stable work and family wise thank God. Motivation is my health which I take seriously, the 1,000km goal for 2012 and the races I've registered for. Plus I'm a stubborn bas**rd so I tend to hold myself to account.

Originally Posted by Clearlier

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted quickly.

So so I!!!

Ben

[pc11]

Assuming nothing is medically wrong, I would say try some changes and see what happens. I think you need slightly more carbs, I don't think you're replenishing glycogen fully. Also, try easing off weights sessions for 2-3 weeks. Vary your programme a little, perhaps easy week followed by hard week.

[ger664]

Originally Posted by corny

Thats a misnomer. Your body burns free fatty acids in the blood for energy not stored fat reserves. 1000 calories of hard or 1000 calories of slow running. There's no difference.

True but your body will use some of that energy to breakdown fat reserves to replace those free fatty acids in the blood when you are running. The faster you go the less this happens.

[corny]

Originally Posted by ger664

True but your body will use some of that energy to breakdown fat reserves to replace those free fatty acids in the blood when you are running. The faster you go the less this happens.

And this provides a greater energy drain than say the RMR effect strenuous work has post-exercise?

[BenThere]

It sounds like a heart rate monitor would be a good investment, both to help me suss out my comfortable running pace and also as I have high blood pressure it's probably a good thing to keep a good handle on my heart rate.

Like everyone these days I'm into conserving cash and getting maximum value for money so any suggestions for heart rate models would be much appreciated.

Amazon has this entry level Polar model but it doesn't count calories which is a bit of a draw back as I do try to keep a close eye on calories in and calories burned - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polar-FT1-He...0898373&sr=1-1

This one has pretty good reviews and is even better value http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultrasport-R...0898891&sr=1-2

This one is even cheaper and has very good reviews also http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...owViewpoints=1

Any reason not to get the cheapest one?

Why do people pay €200 for a heart rate monitor? What does it do???

Ben

[rom]

Originally Posted by BenThere

It sounds like a heart rate monitor would be a good investment, both to help me suss out my comfortable running pace and also as I have high blood pressure it's probably a good thing to keep a good handle on my heart rate.

Like everyone these days I'm into conserving cash and getting maximum value for money so any suggestions for heart rate models would be much appreciated.

Amazon has this entry level Polar model but it doesn't count calories which is a bit of a draw back as I do try to keep a close eye on calories in and calories burned - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polar-FT1-He...0898373&sr=1-1

This one has pretty good reviews and is even better value http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultrasport-R...0898891&sr=1-2

This one is even cheaper and has very good reviews also http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...owViewpoints=1

Any reason not to get the cheapest one?

Why do people pay €200 for a heart rate monitor? What does it do???

Ben

You are not getting enough sleep. I suffered from it for a long time and I would sleep all day over the weekend. A sleepmate white noise machine or relaxation tape would do wonders for you. I bet you get stressed easy. People pay lots for HR monitor as they don't like looking at them every 2 mins. Then better ones you can set a limit on that the watch beeps if you go over it. A cheap garmin 405 or 305 are probably the best. A basic HR monitor is fine but it is annoying checking the watch often rather than an altert telling you when you are over a limit that you define. Also you have the HR over time rather than a static view, also much of these watches do GPS also. Polar is a good name for a simple HR monitor though.