[ebixa82]

Originally Posted by micropig

So in the medical card processing office, receive application, assess, put on system, change details on standard letter, Send to medical professionals etc, wait for response, Follow up if no response, Notify applicant. next



Unions



Why 3-4 months, what's holding up the process?
How many applications are being processed doing daily, where's the weakest link in the chain?

The delay would be due to the sheer volume of people applying, the likes of which have never been seen before, combined with a poorly managed administration system.

If the HSE was private the underperforming and incompetent staff would be weeded out and replaced. As it is the public sector these people cannot be fired, delaying the whole system.

I don't get your "unions" comment btw!

[Chinasea]

Time the whole handout culture was knocked on the head.

Hurry up IMF - axe this ridicules overspend. (Shame we had to have a full on recession to cop this nonsense).

The medical card like so many other benefits is totally abused by both the supposed thousands that are "entitled" to it and the doctors who hugely benefit from the scheme also.

Time we all started to pay our way for everything - not just the workers.

Regardless of your status you should have to pay something towards your medical costs (with a maximum threshold). It is a total joke that Anto can go into any chemist and get his meds. for just .50c courtesy of the tax payer.

[Pingi]

Originally Posted by firemansammie

I had a baby in Oct, called them up about getting one for my son. I was advised to send in his birth cert, pps no along with my medical card number and my pps no. All this was done the first week in December. I still have not had a response from them. I have tried calling them but on pay as you go phone credit I cant hold for more than 30 mins (1st time hung up after 20 second time 30 mins) I got through last week and was told I should have called to "esculate" it? they would send it up and would have a decission in 7/10 working days. Surely it shouldnt take 3 months to process that when they have all the info already?

This was a major problem, I couldn't get my head around why it took so long to have these cards processed when I was working there. If parent/s have a card then the baby will be entitled unless its a superstar pampers model who earns thousands...or something

But if it makes you feel any better a baby is covered under the parent/s cards for the first 6 weeks, then after that if you're still waiting and show that you have a card valid for the next few months a doctor can wait to bill you for the baby's treatment until the card is through as they will know that the baby will get one and they will get paid. Some might refuse to do this, it's there right to do so but most would be grand about it so maybe ask around.

Also if a baby gets very sick or a serious medical condition a letter faxed by a Dr will significantly speed up the process.

[SEPT 23 1989]

Why cant they just come out with their hands up and say

WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO BACK UP ALL THE NEW CARDS

this delay bullsh1t is all a big smokescreen

[micropig]

Originally Posted by SEPT 23 1989

Why cant they just come out with their hands up and say

WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO BACK UP ALL THE NEW CARDS

this delay bullsh1t is all a big smokescreen

True,

We also don't have the money to pay large salaries to managers, who are not managing effectively.

[woodoo]

Originally Posted by Pingi

I worked for the phoneline for the medical card for a few weeks in the summer until I was able to get another job that related to my qualifications.

The people on the phones do not see the medical card applications ever, they just handle the calls and are insanely busy doing so (worst job I've ever had, < €9 PH too) sometimes there would be crazy waiting times for people to get through I saw anywhere from 0-40 minutes and we never had more than 30 seconds between calls. Always heard that the processing team where completely rushed off there feet worse than us and to try and cut down the amount of query's we would send up. It's not a case of the staff doing nothing More staff were clearly needed/under funded.

Applications at the time where taking from 3-8 weeks when sent full completed, But I would have to think less than half came in fully completed.

I completely agree that the forms should outline clearer and what evidence is required spelled out as the applications. As the main thing that delays applications is them being incomplete. You literally have to prove everything you put on the application and anything that can be traced as income to your PPSN which is only right.

The things people used to try and pass off where laughable. "I give me ma €70 a week rent" "the woman down the road minds my kids for €200 a week",

One woman told me she sent proof that she had an au paire which would bring her below the guidelines, I questioned this with the processors as I wouldn't of thought having an Au paire would count as childcare deductible from what you can earn and got a message back from them saying that she sent a letter in her own hand writing saying "I pay an au paire €300 a week signed X"

All of the above might have been true, but whats to stop people saying they're paying out any amount of unrecorded cash of any amount. Also people wanting what they pay in private school fees, big car loans and credit card/phone bills taken into consideration PFFFT

People moving houses and not informing the HSE, Renewal applications going to old address and card expires, (they could have rang and requested a new form when they saw it was coming to an end) or People filling out the online application that clearly states you need to print and post all evidence once complete never doing so, then ringing up F'ing the call centre workers out of it cause they can't see the Dr for free

I've seen people eg those in road traffic accidents be given cards the next day for faxing through Drs reports and proof of there incomes. From what I saw they really do try and help as best they can with what they have.

A lot of good info in that post. If less than half of people are sending in the correct info then that would cause serious delays. If 20,000 applications are arriving each week and 10,000 have to be put aside and wait on the new info. That would be a nightmare, what if it comes in wrong again then. If the person then sends in the info in a single letter with out the ref number. Think of the nightmare of trying to match it to the correct application.

Also, if they are dealing with queries on applications so much that is going to slow them down too. As you say pingi if you in the call centre are in contact with the processors looking for answers that is a problem too.

I can see how the whole place is chaos now with all that going on.


Bottom line is the public have a responsibility to read through the application and send it in complete with all relevant info. And cut the spoofing and bulls**t of sending in lies that have to be queried.

[woodoo]

Originally Posted by SEPT 23 1989

Why cant they just come out with their hands up and say

WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO BACK UP ALL THE NEW CARDS

this delay bullsh1t is all a big smokescreen

Thats not the case at all. Its is nothing to do with money. The problem is processing. In the old offices all this was dealt with no problem because they had far more staff. There are no more cards today than there were in 2010 or 2011.

[micropig]

Originally Posted by ebixa82

The delay would be due to the sheer volume of people applying, the likes of which have never been seen before, combined with a poorly managed administration system.

As of the 8 October 2010 the central office has received 211,801 applications/reviews

171,237 cards were issued
6,008 not successful
12,994 await information (so not that high of a percentage)

That leaves a backlog of 21,562 on the 8 Oct 2010

Why wasn't the issue addressed then?

Many people who have sent in all their information are still waiting

Lets not forget, that all they do in the office is put the application on the system, verify by sending out letters and consolidating missing information with claim, notify applicant. All admin work. It shouldn't take long to change the details on a standard letter, print and post.

Originally Posted by ebixa82

If the HSE was private the underperforming and incompetent staff would be weeded out and replaced. As it is the public sector these people cannot be fired, delaying the whole system.

Sadly very true, In a private company, everyone would have rolled up their sleeves at this stage and pitched in to help, managers and all They're wouldn't be this mess and amount of people sitting on their hands doing nothing..sorry managing

Originally Posted by ebixa82

I don't get your "unions" comment btw!

2009 When changing the system union members - We need more money to do this we're over worked.

Sorry, no more money

Unions- , we'll show them, everyone only process x number of applications a day, Watch the backlog grow

Come in on time, go home on time and take your time all day.

@woodoo the old office done everything manually by hand

[mattjack]

2009 When changing the system union members - We need more money to do this we're over worked.

Sorry, no more money

Unions- , we'll show them, everyone only process x number of applications a day, Watch the backlog grow

Come in on time, go home on time and take your time all day.

@woodoo the old office done everything manually by hand[/QUOTE]


I spoke here before, I worked for quite a few years where medical cards applications are received , I dont remember any major militant union activity at all, if there was any I would have to leave because of my own union.

I do remember people being rostered in to work late and on weekends and I do know that the building in Finglas was upgraded to improve canteen conditions etc for staff because of the amount of people being relocated to process medical cards.

Like I said before I worked in the reception and I,ve seen the phones ringing non stop with callers for the whole day without any break.

I don,t know the process or the time it takes to receive and process any application but I'm being honest here the staff struck me as being hard working and diligent.

I actually think the volume of numbers has overwhelmed the HSE not that laziness,union activity or staff ineptitude is the cause of the delays.

what do you mean in the "old office" ...which old office ?

[micropig]

Originally Posted by mattjack

I spoke here before, I worked for quite a few years where medical cards applications are received , I dont remember any major militant union activity at all, if there was any I would have to leave because of my own union.

I do remember people being rostered in to work late and on weekends and I do know that the building in Finglas was upgraded to improve canteen conditions etc for staff because of the amount of people being relocated to process medical cards.

Like I said before I worked in the reception and I,ve seen the phones ringing non stop with callers for the whole day without any break.

I don,t know the process or the time it takes to receive and process any application but I'm being honest here the staff struck me as being hard working and diligent.

I actually think the volume of numbers has overwhelmed the HSE not that laziness,union activity or staff ineptitude is the cause of the delays.

what do you mean in the "old office" ...which old office ?

According to Ms Jan O’Sullivan TD, Minister of State at the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government: January 26th, 2012http://healthupdate.gov.ie/on-the-re...es-debate.html

So they haven't been processing over 70's applications for 2 years now,

The final part of the centralisation project took place on the 1 of July 2011 with the centralisation of Medical Card processing and associated tasks for the entire country in the Primary Care Reimbursement Service (PCRS) office in Finglas, Dublin.

For the first time in the State’s history a single uniform system of application processing has been put in place. This system replaces the different systems previously operated through more than 100 Offices across the country. Some of the changes that have been introduced include the medicalcard.ie website and the standardisation of medical card assessments. The new arrangement should ultimately provide for a far more accountable and better managed medical card processing system.

It's been 6 months since the move was finalised, most glitches should be ironed out at this stage

this month, the HSE is easing the review process for all pensioners. The change will mean that reviews for medical card holders who are 66yrs or over will operate on a self-assessment basis, as currently happens with over-seventies. The self-assessment review model will also be extended to medical card holders under 66, who were granted their medical card on the basis of a means assessment, where the HSE is satisfied is living in this jurisdiction

Over 66 will self assess
Under 66 with card granted by means testing, also self review

HSE is in the process of arranging access to data in the possession of the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Protection to allow them conduct reviews without troubling medical card holders for further documentation. It is also intended to increase the fine applying to false claims in a forthcoming Bill

Should cut down on waiting times

the HSE are confident that the extension of the self assessment model to the great majority of medical card holders will simplify the process substantially, will improve the service to the client and will continue to improve turnaround times for reviews. It is hoped that ultimately about 80% of renewals will be dealt with in this way.

Should cut their workload

February 1, the HSE will implement a new system that gives GP’s the additional ability to identify and assist the most vulnerable Medical Card holders in our society. GP’s will be able to maintain the eligibility of these patients where they are going through the renewal system. GP’s will also be able to add new babies onto the medical card system online.

they aren't issuing ones for new babies since feb, gp does it


So thats a good lot of their normal workload cut already, sure this frees them up to deal with the increase in applicants.

[mattjack]

Fair play to ya Micropig.

[Pingi]

Originally Posted by micropig

As of the 8 October 2010 the central office has received 211,801 applications/reviews

171,237 cards were issued
6,008 not successful
12,994 await information (so not that high of a percentage)

That leaves a backlog of 21,562 on the 8 Oct 2010

Why wasn't the issue addressed then?

Many people who have sent in all their information are still waiting

Lets not forget, that all they do in the office is put the application on the system, verify by sending out letters and consolidating missing information with claim, notify applicant. All admin work. It shouldn't take long to change the details on a standard letter, print and post.

Those figures are from 2010 when local health offices where dealing with applications. From what I could tell and im no expert (I only there for a few weeks and never qualified for a medical card myself) LHOs were looking for far less details from applicants than what is now being looked for thus the % of uncomplete applications being much much higher today.

It' not fully explained what is needed on the form and people are sending in the wrong things, somthing leaving them having to send stuff in 2,3 and 4 times before having a completed application.

When working there I advised my freind who was filling out the application form of all the documentary evidence he needed when applying, He did as I advised and 4 weeks later he had a card. (I had no influence in this nor did I see his application)

[micropig]

Originally Posted by Pingi

Those figures are from 2010 when local health offices where dealing with applications. From what I could tell and im no expert (I only there for a few weeks and never qualified for a medical card myself) LHOs were looking for far less details from applicants than what is now being looked for thus the % of uncomplete applications being much much higher today.

It' not fully explained what is needed on the form and people are sending in the wrong things, somthing leaving them having to send stuff in 2,3 and 4 times before having a completed application.

When working there I advised my freind who was filling out the application form of all the documentary evidence he needed when applying, He did as I advised and 4 weeks later he had a card. (I had no influence in this nor did I see his application)

The figures for 2010 are for the central office not LHO

As of the 8 October 2010 the central office has received 211,801 applications/reviews,
issued 171,237 medical cards on foot of these applications and a further 7,185 cards are
due to be issued in the coming days. 6,008 applications were not successful.
All complete applications are processed in 15 working days. The length of time it takes
to process an incomplete application depends on how quickly the client provides any
required missing information or documentary evidence to the office to allow the
appropriate process to be completed. In respect of every incomplete application we write
to the applicant and we request any missing information. We await information in respect
of 12,994 applications.

http://hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/P..._35378-09_.pdf

Received: 211,801
issued 171,237
7,185 cards are due to be issued
6,008 applications were not successful
await information in respect of 12,994 applications

Total Processed including figures for applications with missing info:197,424

6.6% of applications are awaiting information, hardly a significant amount

[Pingi]

Originally Posted by micropig

The figures for 2010 are for the central office not LHO


http://hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/P..._35378-09_.pdf

Received: 211,801
issued 171,237
7,185 cards are due to be issued
6,008 applications were not successful
await information in respect of 12,994 applications

Total Processed including figures for applications with missing info:197,424

6.6% of applications are awaiting information, hardly a significant amount

We are now in 2012 with a new system in place for applying. What I'm saying is during the summer the percentage of incomplete applications arriving was definitely much higher than 6.6% and I would imagion still is.

The information provided in that letter dated 2010 in no way reflects the current situation and time frames since the LHOs stopped taking applications in July

Just to give you an idea of how much extra work was taken on over the summer it took 15 people to answer the phone up until July, When I left in October there was 45(then 44 ) and they were hiring more.

[micropig]

Originally Posted by Pingi

We are now in 2012 with a new system in place for applying. What I'm saying is during the summer the percentage of incomplete applications arriving was definitely much higher than 6.6% and I would imagion still is.

The information provided in that letter dated 2010 in no way reflects the current situation and time frames since the LHOs stopped taking applications in July

Just to give you an idea of how much extra work was taken on over the summer it took 15 people to answer the phone up until July, When I left in October there was 45(then 44 ) and they were hiring more.

It takes 15 civil servants to answer a phone?

150 staff and 45 of them answering phones? - Wouldn't these people be more effective processing applications?
They would have less phone calls to answer if the processed more

Can you provide more updated figures so The final part of the centralisation project took place on the 1 of July 2011

There 21,563 were unprocessed claims on Oct 8 2010, so backlog is nothing to do with the new system. Since 2010, they're work load has been cut, see my previous post

Mary Harney on the issue in 2010
http://healthupdate.gov.ie/on-the-re...cal-cards.html

I particularly like this piece

The next phase of the project will move the processing of all new applications to the Central Office following a consultative process with staff representatives in line with the recent agreement on pay and reform in the public service.

&

Jan O Sullivan 2012 Jan http://healthupdate.gov.ie/on-the-re...es-debate.html
http://healthupdate.gov.ie/on-the-re...es-debate.html