[gerryo777]

Originally Posted by irelandrover

Why should Ireland get sweeteners to vote YES on this referendum?

Because they would rather we were 'in' than 'out'.

Think about it, if we vote no and in the future we need another bailout, we wont be able to access funds from the ECB.

If this happens we will have to default on loans made to us and that will cause untold damage to the euro project.

[force eleven]

Originally Posted by irelandrover

Why should Ireland get sweeteners to vote YES on this referendum?

This is, of course, the obvious question, and one I believed before the referendum was called would be a no brainer. But listening to Barroso etc, it looks like they don't particularly care whether we are in their fiscal prison or not. This 'fiscal compact' (they love their snappy phrases) will go ahead regardless, and good luck to the other small eurozone members who get this tied around their economic neck for decades.

I don't think the government, Van Rompuy,Barroso, Giscard D'estang or Peter Sutherland can scare the people into Yes this time.

[K-9]

Originally Posted by force eleven

So we are being asked to vote in a set of measures which will tie us into austerity for at least another 10-15yrs.

You say that as if there's some choice in the matter!

[pancakes rule]

Voting No. This treaty is going to make any keynsian policies and socialism illegal. It is taking democracy further away from the people. It will mean MASSIVE austerity for us (an extra €8.6 billion in cuts) which will put more people in debt and if the government doesn't manage to meet the .5% of GDP in time, we'll be fined which will send us into a debt spiral.
The treaty says we should encourage job promotion, but that won't be possible as taking money out of the public sector will cause job losses there which will have a knock on affect in job losses in the private sector.
We won't be able to borrow money for public works anymore. Yes, there will be a chance for individual projects, but that simply won't be enough.
Budgetary power will shift from elected governments to the unelected European Council.
Not only will this government be tied to these strict rules of austerity, but any future government will also be tied to it, meaning that whoever we elect can never bring any change- it's like saying you can have any colour car as long as it's black.

[Biggins]

If anyone is NOT currently watching TV3 news, I'd advise folk to turn it on.
Its on an ad beak at the mo but Vincent Brown is going to bring up what he calls "a strange development regarding the treaty".

I have NO idea yet what he's going to bring up - yet!

UPDATE:

Vincent stated that the treaty in its first draft that was agreed to by all and signed up to by all then, had no ruling in it that if anyone voted "no", there would be NO withdrawing of economic help/funds.
Apparently (and he will be discussing this wed' week when he returns from holiday) he says that just four weeks ago, they rewrote the treaty party with its new added sub-section, to now included the exclusion penalties upon a "No" vote!
The original treaty (and the countries involved more so) that was agreed over a year ago, had no way apparently of knowing what what was going to happen regards Ireland etc so had no inclusion of penalties of later exclusion!

Strange stuff indeed!

[K-9]

Originally Posted by Biggins

If anyone is NOT currently watching TV3 news, I'd advise folk to turn it on.
Its on an ad beak at the mo but Vincent Brown is going to bring up what he calls "a strange development regarding the treaty".

I have NO idea yet what he's going to bring up - yet!

UPDATE:

Vincent stated that the treaty in its first draft that was agreed to by all and signed up to by all then, had no ruling in it that if anyone voted "no", there would be NO withdrawing of economic help/funds.
Apparently (and he will be discussing this wed' week when he returns from holiday) he says that just four weeks ago, they rewrote the treaty party with its new added sub-section, to now included the exclusion penalties upon a "No" vote!
The original treaty (and the countries involved more so) that was agreed over a year ago, had no way apparently of knowing what what was going to happen regards Ireland etc so had no inclusion of penalties of later exclusion!

Strange stuff indeed!

It isn't new, he brought it up on Tuesday night I think! Got to love Vincent!

The original treaty was only agreed after Xmas as the general provisions were only agreed on in December, the meeting were they all self congratulated themselves on finding yet another solution to the crisis, oh, and Cameron got "snubbed".

Its a stupid provision. If Ireland needs another bailout and it probably will, even if we are successful in getting back to the markets next year, rules will be set aside if it risks Euro instability.

The thing is, and I'd put the mortgage* on it and I'm not a betting man, the provisions in the Treaty will by and large be a condition of the second bail out!

*May not have a mortgage, may be one of the poor renting classes!

[sdeire]

NO a million times over.

Maybe literally, if the exit polls arent looking too favourable

[eth0]

Why are RTE reporting on polls that says there will be a yes vote? is it propaganda or are we boardsies only a bunch of contrarians?

[GombeanMan]

Originally Posted by eth0

Why are RTE reporting on polls that says there will be a yes vote? is it propaganda or are we boardsies only a bunch of contrarians?

Highly Suspicious. Please vote No, these new arrangements will potentially lead to 15 years of bailing out. In 10 years time I doubt Ireland will even stand as a nation. Vote Yes, we may as well consider the country as a poverty ridden section of Germany. I don't really like what these EU Political class folk are doing. Barrosso was a Communist Mao apologist/supporter. Mao Killed 100,000,000 people in China.

[Cork24]

Ill be voting "NO"

as once again our Goverment Fails to tell us in Lay mans terms what the hole thing means as a country

And i do hope that when it does fail in our Country we wont be forced into a another Vote.. just like FF..

[DEFTLEFTHAND]

Yes, this little North Atlantic rock can't keep impeding European progress I say.

[GombeanMan]

Originally Posted by DEFTLEFTHAND

Yes, this little North Atlantic rock can't keep impeding European progress I say.

In what way, exactly? Is the European Union free from blame in this eurozone disaster? These people like spending other people's money. Trouble is, it's starting to run out. The EU is heading in the direction of the USSR. The model this Union is partly derived from.

[kowloon]

I'll just randomly tick one of the boxes, if I get it wrong they'll tell me and I can get it right the second time round.

[Tayla]

Originally Posted by quietriot

I intend to vote intelligently on the matter. That is, having read the text and making a decision on how to vote based on that text and my expectation of the consequences from it.

I will not vote based on how I feel about the current government or what I think of the EU.

It's unbelievably sad that I will be a miniscule minority in doing so. This country does not deserve democracy.

Quietrot, I'll be voting no,

Do I know what the text is?...Nope
Do I know what exactly the rules and regulations wil be?....Nope

.....But I have a good idea about what's going to be in it, I read a lot about European politics and to be honest I fear that this treaty is actually going to be worse than I have imagined. People who are saying no are not just blindly saying no even though they have no clue whatsoever what we're voting for, it's not like we're going to finally get the text and come across some lovely surprises in it so get off your high horse.

Originally Posted by Jenroche

It won't matter what way we vote. If we get it wrong, they'll just make us vote again until we give the answer they want. Why even bother?

So that we can at least try to stand up for ourselves?

Originally Posted by gerryo777

There is always a choice.

Are we going to continue making the wrong choices??

There comes a time when people have to stop being so naive and actually start making the correct decisions.
People can't hide behind their votes anymore like they did with Lisbon saying 'oh I voted yes because they promised jobs'.
We know the government are liars, it's time for people to start educating themselves and time for people to stop blindly going along with the governments lies.

Fine Gael are not even trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes anymore, nothing they have done has been for the good of this country.

Originally Posted by AudreyHepburn

I
If you do wish to vote No then do it for the right reasons, and not through bitterness or because you think the Government are incapable of anything.

The same can be said for those voting yes, I knew people who voted yes to Lisbon and their reasoning behind it was "well If the shinners are saying no...then i'm voting yes"

Originally Posted by eth0

Why are RTE reporting on polls that says there will be a yes vote? is it propaganda or are we boardsies only a bunch of contrarians?

Of course it's propaganda.....plus they're excluding the undecided voters which makes it look like there is more support than there actually is.

[sdeire]

Originally Posted by DEFTLEFTHAND

Yes, this little North Atlantic rock can't keep impeding European progress I say.

You're going to vote for European progess rather than IRISH progress?

That's just plain, undiluted selfishness.

A YES vote to this will be two fingers to Ireland. Hey EU, here's our pass card and PIN, do what you want with it. Cheers.