[Conway635]

I've been meaning to post this for some time now, but witnessing a particular movement on Saturday has finally confirmed my belief that Suffolk Street is dangerously overloaded in terms of the number of bus stopping movements that take place within a small and very confined physical area.

The large number of routes stopping there is such that the distinction between the two different stops is hard to maintain, and the street is often packed with buses seeking a bit of kerbspace in which to load/unload. The narrow pavements make the problem worse too, as the number of passengers waiting and moving around each other is quite large.

On Saturday I saw a far from rare situation in which many of the elements which contributed to the tragedy at Wellington Quay were in place.

An Aircoach and a Dublin Bus were beside the pavement loading at the forward of the two stops, while about two thirds of a bus length back a Bus Eireann 100X coach was loading for Dundalk. A 46A came along the outside of the BE vehicle, and unable to fit into the space, stopped in the outside lane to let a lot of people off, while a crowd of some dozen or so surged forward onto the road to board it.

At this point, I rather hoped that the BE coach was in neutral with the parking brake on, because otherwise those getting on and off the 46A were boxed in on three sides by a wall of buses, and the narrow pavement was thronging with people. If one single point of failure (driver or vehicle) caused the BE coach to move forward unexpectedly, there would have been no way for these people to get out of the way.

Of course nothing untoward happened. Nothing does, 9,999 times out of 10,000. But by not having proper loading space in place, the layers of safety which prevent that 1 in ten thousand event are stripped away.

Apart from the safety aspect, which worries me, it must be hell from drivers to operate through. It's not that pleasent for the passengers either, too little space, hard to know where your bus will pull up, if it will be at the stop, or do you need to run back past other buses to board it.

This is the kind of problem that the NTA should be looking at and adressing.

So what could we do, accepting that we don't want to remove the routes themselves?

First off, we should remove the stops for tour buses and slow loading coaches (DB, Dualway, Aircoach and BE) from Suffolk Street. Perhaps there could be a rearrangment of stops in Dawson Street, so instead of many buses stopping wtice, they stop once, and a stop at the bottom could be freed up for the coach and tour services.

Priority for stopping space should be given to the cross-city routes, perhaps the 15A/B could be rerouted via Westland Row?

I'm sure the brains at the NTA could come up with a solution, but believe me, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

C635

[AlekSmart]

Originally Posted by Conway635

I've been meaning to post this for some time now, but witnessing a particular movement on Saturday has finally confirmed my belief that Suffolk Street is dangerously overloaded in terms of the number of bus stopping movements that take place within a small and very confined physical area.

The large number of routes stopping there is such that the distinction between the two different stops is hard to maintain, and the street is often packed with buses seeking a bit of kerbspace in which to load/unload. The narrow pavements make the problem worse too, as the number of passengers waiting and moving around each other is quite large.

On Saturday I saw a far from rare situation in which many of the elements which contributed to the tragedy at Wellington Quay were in place.

An Aircoach and a Dublin Bus were beside the pavement loading at the forward of the two stops, while about two thirds of a bus length back a Bus Eireann 100X coach was loading for Dundalk. A 46A came along the outside of the BE vehicle, and unable to fit into the space, stopped in the outside lane to let a lot of people off, while a crowd of some dozen or so surged forward onto the road to board it.

At this point, I rather hoped that the BE coach was in neutral with the parking brake on, because otherwise those getting on and off the 46A were boxed in on three sides by a wall of buses, and the narrow pavement was thronging with people. If one single point of failure (driver or vehicle) caused the BE coach to move forward unexpectedly, there would have been no way for these people to get out of the way.

Of course nothing untoward happened. Nothing does, 9,999 times out of 10,000. But by not having proper loading space in place, the layers of safety which prevent that 1 in ten thousand event are stripped away.

Apart from the safety aspect, which worries me, it must be hell from drivers to operate through. It's not that pleasent for the passengers either, too little space, hard to know where your bus will pull up, if it will be at the stop, or do you need to run back past other buses to board it.

This is the kind of problem that the NTA should be looking at and adressing.

So what could we do, accepting that we don't want to remove the routes themselves?

First off, we should remove the stops for tour buses and slow loading coaches (DB, Dualway, Aircoach and BE) from Suffolk Street. Perhaps there could be a rearrangment of stops in Dawson Street, so instead of many buses stopping wtice, they stop once, and a stop at the bottom could be freed up for the coach and tour services.

Priority for stopping space should be given to the cross-city routes, perhaps the 15A/B could be rerouted via Westland Row?

I'm sure the brains at the NTA could come up with a solution, but believe me, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

C635

Absolutely 100% in agreement.

Top Post Conway635.

I would go further and suggest that you send a hard copy by registered post to the Chief Executive of the NTA with copies to the Asst Garda Commissioner for the DMA and to Noel Brett CX of the Road Safety Authority.

The Dawson st-Suffolk St-Church Lane alignment has for some years now been massively overladen with Bus Routes,which also have to compete with Brewery Drays unloading on the Church Lane corner in addition to Garda escorted Cash movements around the various Banks on the Street.

However,with the increase in cross city routing and the relatively recent addition of long-dwell,luggage handling services such as Aircoach-Bus Eireann and assorted Private Coach Tours this location regularly exceeds the limits for SAFE operation of a PSV.

It is incredible to thionk that this egg-timer of a street carries ALL of the N11 QBC 39/A/46A/145/ journeys as well as assorted Xpresso routes and other non-QBC services.

Added to this are the illegal and dangerous activities of substantial numbers of Taxidrivers who park up and operate a dei-facto rank from the middle of the Pedestrian Crossing on Grafton St.

I would point out however,that this stretch of roadway is actively monitored by both DCC and An Garda Siochana on a 24/7 basis,so your the relevant authorities are well aware of the situation,but choose to ignore it for their own,as yet,secret reasons.

WITHOUT DOUBT,WHEN A SERIOUS ACCIDENT OCCURS ALONG THIS STREET INVOLVING A LARGE PSV,MULTIPLE FATALITIES WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY RESULT.

The only issue will be how many of these Senior Administrators will be charged with Proffessional or Contributory Negligence in relation to it with Corporate Manslaughter being another charge possibly lurking in the background.

At this stage It's just a matter of WHEN it happens,as nobody in Authority appears to have the interest to address the issue.

[Jehuty42]

Couldn't agree more. That street is terrifying at the best of times.

[ArmaniJeanss]

Yep, really hate using that stop on Suffolk St.

If I'm in that area I'd nearly always walk into O'Connell St and get my bus at Easons instead.

[Rock of Gibraltar]

That street is insane, the road ought to be narrowed to a single bus only lane with a segregated two way cycle track on the northern side and the foot paths widened significantly.
Coaches and other long stay vehicles should be banned, city buses only.

It's a classic example of where the pedestrian should be at the forefront of planning in the city.

[ProudDUB]

Agree 100%. The place is a death trap waiting to happen. No way should coaches and non Dublin Bus buses be allowed to stop there. The narrowness of the street can't support it. Add in the large amount of foot traffic from the Avoca shop, the post office and all the pubs and restaurants nearby, its only a matter of time before someone is inadvertently pushed in front of a bus and killed.

[cson]

Westmoreland St is a joke too in terms of the amount of coaches stopping there.

Isn't there some kind of bus only bridge mooted just up above O'Connell bridge? Is it part of the Luas one or something like that?

[Vahevala]

Agree 100%, I go to Suffolk Street every evening to get a bus, usually looking for either a 140/11/46A/38 but it is clogged up with way too many buses/aircoach/bus tours etc

The street is too narrow for it. I have to be on my guard because the buses won't wait to get to the stop if it is too busy, they will pull up at another stop and if you don't see it in time, he will drive past you

[bk]

This shows the desperate need for a new bus station right in the center of the city to serve all the tourist and long wait coach services.

So that they can be taken off the streets and people have better facilities.

I believe the car park behind Connolly Station was originally planned for this. It really should go ahead.

[Jehuty42]

CIE still have notions of building Celtic Tiger offices and apartments on that land, and it's a very rough area to start or end a journey in but yeah, some kind of bus station is needed. Busarus I assume is totally out of the question? Demolishing Hawkins and Apollo Houses and some of the derelict buildings around Tar St might create enough space with good road links.

And the transport only bridge isn't "mooted", it's fully in construction right now.

[Cool Mo D]

A quick fix(ish) that could be done is to reverse the direction of traffic on Saint Andrew Street, so that cars leaving the Trinity Street carpark would be sent down South William street instead. Then, end left turns from Suffolk street to Dame street. This would eliminate private traffic from Suffolk street, and stop buses piling up behind taxis turning left onto Dame street.

[AngryLips]

Originally Posted by Rock of Gibraltar

That street is insane, the road ought to be narrowed to a single bus only lane

It's a pretty unpleasant street to be a padestrian alright. I agree with increasing the size of the pavements but the problem is it needs to remain two lanes to facilitate the loading and unloading of busses without blocking through-traffic of other busses.

Some possible alternatives I can think of in order to reduce it to a single bus-only lane is to move the two bus stops; with one on the street outside the tourist information office and another closer the traffic lights where Suffolk Street joins College Green. It would require changing the directions of some of the other one-way streets and in itself wouldn't be an ideal solution but it would relieve the stress on Suffolk Street.

The more viable solution, IMO, is to route more busses down George's Street since this street is at least better suited to such intense traffic.

[bk]

Originally Posted by Jehuty42

CIE still have notions of building Celtic Tiger offices and apartments on that land, and it's a very rough area to start or end a journey in but yeah, some kind of bus station is needed. Busarus I assume is totally out of the question? Demolishing Hawkins and Apollo Houses and some of the derelict buildings around Tar St might create enough space with good road links.

No reason they can't do both, bus station in the first two or three floors, apartments and offices over it.

While it is a slightly rough area, this sort of development is what is needed to improve it and it is just right next to the swanky IFSC district, so even with the recession, offices here should still sell well.

I'd imagine the problem is who owns and operates it? CIE won't want to give up the land, but such a facility should really be operated by the NTA, as it will be catering primarily to private bus companies (e.g. Aircoach, Citylink, GoBus, etc.) with perhaps some BE overflow and I couldn't see them being happy with CIE (Bus Eireann) operating the show.

Perhaps the solution would be for the government to allow CIE close busaras, demolish it and rebuild it as offices, in exchange for allowing the NTA to operate a new bus station in Connolly, which would cater for both the private operators and BE and perhaps also allow CIE to own the offices over the new bus station.

That way everyone ones and we have nice integrated public transport, with excellent links to DART, commuter rail, LUAS.

Tara St. would be another good potential location.

You could also do it at Hueston, but I think Connolly would be a better location as it has better transport connections (Dart, Port Tunnel to the airport and M50) and is closer to where people want to go (walking distance from the city center and IFSC).

[Losty Dublin]

Originally Posted by bk

Perhaps the solution would be for the government to allow CIE close busaras, demolish it and rebuild it as offices, in exchange for allowing the NTA to operate a new bus station in Connolly, which would cater for both the private operators and BE and perhaps also allow CIE to own the offices over the new bus station.

Busaras has an order slapped on it so it can't just be knocked down on a whim, sadly. Also, the DSP has it's head office upstairs and CIE would need to find alternative accommodation in lieu.

[KD345]

Originally Posted by bk

This shows the desperate need for a new bus station right in the center of the city to serve all the tourist and long wait coach services.

So that they can be taken off the streets and people have better facilities.

I believe the car park behind Connolly Station was originally planned for this. It really should go ahead.

While a bus station at Connolly would be great, would it help the situation at Suffolk Street? There is a demand for all of these buses in the area, just not necessarily at the same location on Suffolk Street. Connolly station is not a convenient location for a lot of Aircoach passengers on the south side, and tour buses by their nature need to stop close to attractions.

Perhaps a suggestion would be use the last two stops on Dawson Street for the Aircoach, Tours and Bus Eireann services only and keep Suffolk Street for Dublin Bus. There is very little walk between both stops.