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25-02-2012, 19:19   #31
Domo230
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I'd be understanding if my kid was being bullied and would probably enrol them in boxing to toughen them up and build a bit of confidence so it wouldn't happen again.

If he was a bully I would be ashamed but at least he is strong enough to do it. Many bullies tend to do well in life so lose the bullying but keep whatever it is that makes them do well in life.
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25-02-2012, 19:24   #32
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Many of the people I knew who were bullies in childhood grew up to be really sad people. They tried their bullying thing in adult life and found out it didn't work anymore.
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25-02-2012, 19:32   #33
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I am sick and tired of my children having had the following drummed into them in creche and primary school - if another child hits you, do not hit back, tell your teacher what happened.

I just want them to stand up for themselves and defend and if necessary hit back.
I've always told my kids to hop any child's head off the floor if they dare try to bully or hit them...
They know I'll have their back if teachers made an issue out of them standing up for themselves but luckily they've never had to do this yet
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25-02-2012, 19:34   #34
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What if he tells the teacher, but the teacher blames him, or dismisses what he says? This is common enough - they just dont want the hassle. Or what if the action he takes to change things ends up making things worse? Like if he told his parents and they blamed him for it, or thought less of him. He's a child. He doesn't have a highly developed idea of how things work yet. He learns from what he experiences.

Vocal responses tend to be the strongest defences against most forms of victimisation - especially when you become an adult. Believe me if you're a 6'4 professional boxer, you risk making things a hell of a lot worse for yourself if you use your physical attributes to defend yourself. Especially if your verbal/social skills are not so well developed.

Your sort of attitude would encourage a child to keep quiet about the bullying, rather than to take appropriate action about it. It is likely to cause the very behaviour that you criticise.
What if he tells the teacher, but the teacher blames him, or dismisses what he says?

I'm afraid I'm not following your reasoning.

I'm saying that:
1.) Bullying can't continue unless the victim *continues* to allow it by indifference or inaction.

2.) I'd be more disappointed in my child for allowing someone to continually bully him, than I would for him bullying someone else.

I don't see how emphasizing the importance of doing SOMETHING (even a misguided something) when faced with injustice is going to lead a child to NOT take action.

If a parent emphasizes the importance of being 'tough' - certainly, I could see how a child who is bullied would feel he/she has failed in 'being tough' and would want to avoid telling anyone. But I'm taking the opposite stance. It's okay, normal, even expected, that someone else is going to be in a position to take advantage of/wrong you/bully you. There is nothing anyone can do to change that.

The only choice a victim has is how to respond to the injustice.

To put it differently; both the bully and the victim know something wrong is going down. The bully is allowing injustice to continue because it benefits him and because he is in a position of power. The victim is allowing injustice to continue because....he's afraid....he's indifferent....he'd rather ignore his problems than face them....something.

Both of them are in the wrong.

But the underlying traits that the bully is exhibiting aren't bad, in themselves. The execution is bad. I'd be ashamed at my child for being a bully, and I'd take actions to remedy the situation. But I'd more more ashamed at my child for exhibiting the traits that allow a bully to continue to bully them. Whether it be fear, or apathy, or whatever else.

I absolutely wouldn't care if my child is physically weaker than someone else. Everyone is physically weaker than someone else.

Neither situation is good. But I do feel one is worse than the other. That's the whole point of this thread.
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25-02-2012, 19:46   #35
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What if he tells the teacher, but the teacher blames him, or dismisses what he says?

I'm afraid I'm not following your reasoning.

I'm saying that:
1.) Bullying can't continue unless the victim *continues* to allow it by indifference or inaction.

2.) I'd be more disappointed in my child for allowing someone to continually bully him, than I would for him bullying someone else.

I don't see how emphasizing the importance of doing SOMETHING (even a misguided something) when faced with injustice is going to lead a child to NOT take action.

If a parent emphasizes the importance of being 'tough' - certainly, I could see how a child who is bullied would feel he/she has failed in 'being tough' and would want to avoid telling anyone. But I'm taking the opposite stance. It's okay, normal, even expected, that someone else is going to be in a position to take advantage of/wrong you/bully you. There is nothing anyone can do to change that.

The only choice a victim has is how to respond to the injustice.

To put it differently; both the bully and the victim know something wrong is going down. The bully is allowing injustice to continue because it benefits him and because he is in a position of power. The victim is allowing injustice to continue because....he's afraid....he's indifferent....he'd rather ignore his problems than face them....something.

Both of them are in the wrong.

But the underlying traits that the bully is exhibiting aren't bad, in themselves. The execution is bad. I'd be ashamed at my child for being a bully, and I'd take actions to remedy the situation. But I'd more more ashamed at my child for exhibiting the traits that allow a bully to continue to bully them. Whether it be fear, or apathy, or whatever else.

I absolutely wouldn't care if my child is physically weaker than someone else. Everyone is physically weaker than someone else.

Neither situation is good. But I do feel one is worse than the other. That's the whole point of this thread.
My reasoning is that kids learn from their experiences. So if he tries to address the situation and experiences a negative response, then he might learn not to address the situation.

I dont need the long explanation of your PoV. I already understand what you mean (and I've indicated that clearly tbh). I just disagree with it. I think you're applying adult standards to a child, wrt the victim's possible participation in the bullying.

I strongly disagree with you when you say the traits a bully exhibits aren't bad per sé.

Anyway I'll leave off this debate. You're just repeating yourself and not really trying to get what I'm saying.
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25-02-2012, 20:11   #36
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I may be delusional but I can't recall ever being bullied or bullying anyone else. If I was ever picked on it went straight over my head. From what I have seen, a bully and a person who is bullied are one and the same. A bully needs to exert power and belittle someone to overcome their insecurity and a 'victim' of bullying endures the abuse because of their insecurity. I do not think bullying is a sign of a leader, or being bullied is a sign of a sheep. The most successful people I know are diplomatic and respectful and they know how to get the best out of people. I don't have kids but if I did and I found out they were either of these, I would give them lessons on how to deal with people properly.
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25-02-2012, 20:16   #37
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Having been bullied myself I would be devastated if it happened to my child.

I would be even more devastated to think my child was the bully. And I would be ashamed to think I raised such a child.
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25-02-2012, 20:17   #38
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If you met the parents of the child that your son or daughter is bullying would you say this to their face?
Also say his own child was being bullied and he met the parents of his childs bully would he still say he doesnt mind children bullying? I think not...
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25-02-2012, 20:18   #39
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I'd be so sad if my child was being bullied of course, but I'd be raging with them if they ever bullied anyone. Just not on.
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25-02-2012, 20:21   #40
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I'm not saying bullying is a good thing; it isn't. But there are some underlying traits you find in bullies and in those who get bullied.

I'd much rather have a bully for a son than someone who is getting bullied.

Anyone can get into a fight and lose. I'm not talking about that. But when someone is continuously bullied without taking action, that is a reflection on them as well.

The bully, even though I don't support his actions, he has a lot of positive traits he's just not using appropriately. He might be bigger/stronger than other kids. He might be a natural leader. He might have a stronger personality. Those can all be good, positive things, that lead to a life-long success.

The kid being bullied, well, I'm not saying they are doomed to failure; but the traits they are exhibiting aren't good ones.
Clearly you have never been forced to endure being bullied.

In no way are the actions of a bully to be admired. If you think that then you need to have a good hard look at yourself. Bullies are cowards, nothing more, nothing less.

I have been bullied and it is not simply a matter of telling the bully to stop or standing up for yourself.

I can't adequetly put into words how it feels to have some-one constantly chipping away at your confidence and undermining you. Standing up to them seems like the hardest thing in the world to do, not because you have not got the will or desire to so, but because you are fearful of the recriminations if you do.

But as I am guessing you've never been in that position I would not expect you to understand
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25-02-2012, 20:25   #41
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If my child was being bullied I would encourage him/her to fight back as best they can and use whatever means they could. No point telling teachers or speaking to others parents, the only language a bully understands is violence. It's the only way it would stop.
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25-02-2012, 20:27   #42
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I was both bullied at school, and a bully.
There was an ingrained culture of bullying at my school right from the teachers down to the pupils.
Bullying was seen as a way of toughening children up, and admired by the teachers as natural leadership and strength of character.
I was taught to fight back by my father, and when I was bullied I did so myself.
I then in turn became a bully, and learned about racketeering and intimidation.
Little did I know that later in life these skills would serve me well.
Whether you like it or not, many bullies in life go on to be successful leaders.
There are some positions in life where one needs to take control and lead.
I would not have a problem with my child being bully. I would rather that to them being bullied.
I was always taught to stand up for myself and fight back. It has served me well in life.
Bullying and standing up for yourself are two entirely different things. The former has nothing to do with the latter. It's quite the opposite in fact.

All bullying teaches is that you have put other people down if you want to feel good about yourself.
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25-02-2012, 20:31   #43
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I guess the question is really the same as asking whether you'd prefer your child to be a criminal or a crime victim, a thief or someone who is stolen from. My wife and I always taught our children that bullying was wrong, that bullies must be reported to parents or the school authorities, that giving in to bullies only encouraged them and meant that others would suffer as well, and that bullies usually ended up friendless and, in all probability, eventually in trouble. I think it worked. If they had turned out to be bullies, their mother and I would both feel a deep sense of failure.
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25-02-2012, 20:33   #44
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Which eye would you prefer to lose - left or right? I'm actually quite attached to both of them, so 50/50 for me.
But that aint how things happen in the real world.

Give a bully a 50/50 choice and he'll take half of each eye.
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25-02-2012, 20:41   #45
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Clearly you have never been forced to endure being bullied.
I was just thinking the same thing. I was bullied for about 4 weeks in senior infants, and the one thing I remember most from that experience is the unending fear of the bully, school and, most acutely, the fear of trying to tell someone. I can't understand even now why the thought of telling my teacher or parents filled me with so much fear, but it did. I count the day I finally told my mam as one of the most difficult and important in my life. I just get the feeling you never experienced bullying because if you did you would understand these feelings.
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