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24-02-2012, 11:35   #1
Western Pomise
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Household Charge in Rural Ireland.

Had a very interesting chat with a non farming neighbour last night....gist of conversation was that Farmers never pay tax (hmmm have heard that one before) but that anecdotal evidence was that more rural than urban dwellers had signed up so far to the 100 euro charge.In fairness the neighbour made a valid point that most Farmers would be known by Govt already...cos of Agri payments....dept farm visits.. etc.I havnt paid it yet but reckon there will be a rush of people paying before the deadline.Whats other rural dwellers views on it?
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24-02-2012, 19:51   #2
Farmer Pudsey
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Had a very interesting chat with a non farming neighbour last night....gist of conversation was that Farmers never pay tax (hmmm have heard that one before) but that anecdotal evidence was that more rural than urban dwellers had signed up so far to the 100 euro charge.In fairness the neighbour made a valid point that most Farmers would be known by Govt already...cos of Agri payments....dept farm visits.. etc.I havnt paid it yet but reckon there will be a rush of people paying before the deadline.Whats other rural dwellers views on it?
I for one will not be in any hurry paying it. As well as farming I am a PAYE worker. I have heard all that guff about farmers not paying Tax.The reality is that any farmer not paying what he is suppose to is crazy the revnue can trace all farming income through factory, mart, co-op etc payments to you as well as being able to check what cattle wen through your herd from the CMS.

If there was wholesale avoidance in the farming sector the revenue would be going to these payee's to cross check if tax had been paid on the income. The area's where you can avoid tax is if your handleing cash very hard to do in the farming game unless you are selling fruit, veg and spuds direct to the customer ( or a couple of sheep). But if you get a check it is in the system.

Now the reason I am not going to pay the household charge or the septic charge is that in most other country's there household charge are broken down to different area's Waste Collection, sewage, Water and other charges. Most also have very low car tax and no VRT.

Take the septic tank charge the reason they are giving is pollution control the reality is that the waste water treatment plants in urban areas are the biggest polluters and have being for a long time.

Now look at the money wasted on the planning for the Childern's hospital at the Mater site which evey dog on the street knows that it is totally unsuitable except for the people who live in central Dublin.

The reality is that the top rate of tax is 53% we are paying for excessive wages to Judges consultants top civil service managers etc. Their pension are obscene when the max pensionout os the CS should be about 40,000 euro and if you think you need a bigger one you should save for it yourself

Until the government (and they are not at fault for the mess we are in) start to fix all the other issues that the troika indicated I am not going to pay any more new taxes
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25-02-2012, 08:48   #3
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Originally Posted by Western Pomise View Post
Had a very interesting chat with a non farming neighbour last night....gist of conversation was that Farmers never pay tax (hmmm have heard that one before) but that anecdotal evidence was that more rural than urban dwellers had signed up so far to the 100 euro charge.In fairness the neighbour made a valid point that most Farmers would be known by Govt already...cos of Agri payments....dept farm visits.. etc.I havnt paid it yet but reckon there will be a rush of people paying before the deadline.Whats other rural dwellers views on it?
I'm still thinking about it. I'll wait until at least the last day and I'll pay the interest charge beyond that if it takes me longer to justify the payment.

Between farm, off farm job and wife's job our house paid over Eur25k in direct taxes in 2011. We paid for our water. We had to give a huge contribution to the local council in 2007 when we built our house in 2007 (Eur5500) and in our eyes, the local council just squandered it. It turns out that 70% of developers never paid a development levy on any of the estates that they built in this county - nor did the council pursue them for the levy, nor did the council stop them from building until they paid the levy.

Now, in this county, we have the most number of vacant houses per head of population of any county in Ireland. The development levy that I paid before I started building my house was used by my local county council to subsidise the building of services for ghost estates whose builders never bothered to pay the levy and were never called upon to pay it.

So do I not already pay my fair share? I pay a lot more than most urban dwellers. They also want me to start paying a fee for my septic tank? At the time of building my house, the Eur5500 levy was supposed to be for my septic tank. Now they want me to start paying more. Bear in mind that the septic tank cost over 5000 to install.

We're by no means wealthy. Both of us have third level qualifications, both of us are still paying off college loans. We have a substantial mortgage. We have little or no savings. We could have an even better quality of life if we were lived at the expense of the state. Council house/rent allowance + Dole + medical card + allowances costs a lot more than Eur 25k per year. There are a lot of people who have chosen this route, there are a lot more who have been forced this route.

This household charge is just another means to protect the wealthy. Instead of making those who can most afford to pay put their shoulder to the wheel, they are spreading the the burden over everyone whether you can afford to pay it or not.

Don't get me started about agri payments. There is not one farmer in this country who wants agri payments. They are a subsidy to keep food prices low for urban dwellers. If farmers received the cost of production for what they produced, they would not need or want subsidies. It would result in urban dwellers paying higher prices for food. But if it changed their attitude, I'd be happy with that!!!!
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25-02-2012, 12:00   #4
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I heard that those who don't pay won't be followed.
However if a house is being sold or transferred through will etc down the road the charge and penalties will need to be cleared first.

I reckon they'll het their pound of flesh no matter what.
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25-02-2012, 12:41   #5
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I heard that those who don't pay won't be followed.
However if a house is being sold or transferred through will etc down the road the charge and penalties will need to be cleared first.

I reckon they'll het their pound of flesh no matter what.
What will actually happened, is that within two years, the household charge will be collected through the PAYE system, and or the self assessment system for self employed.

This is not Greece. The taxes and charges will be collected. The troika will give us no other option. Get over it.
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25-02-2012, 13:54   #6
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Well said reilig
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25-02-2012, 14:03   #7
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The reality is that any farmer not paying what he is suppose to is crazy the revnue can trace all farming income through factory, mart, co-op etc payments to you as well as being able to check what cattle wen through your herd from the CMS.
If there was wholesale avoidance in the farming sector the revenue would be going to these payee's to cross check if tax had been paid on the income.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. It would take many hours and days for one tax investigator to get the necessary authorities, obtain the invoices from the local Marts and Co-Ops, cross reference all the documents with the local council records to find out who has and hasn't paid either the Household or Sceptic charges.

The tax dept just doesn't have the staff to do that. They may select one in 10,000 for a review of tax paid and part of that might be a check on the domestic charges.

I will not be paying either of the charges for 2 simple reasons. 1. I get no benefit from them, and 2, I cannot afford it.

I get a fella drive along the road outside once a year and he chucks down a shovel full of cold tar in the worst of the potholes. Beyond that nothing.

TT
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25-02-2012, 17:43   #8
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I wouldn't worry about that too much. It would take many hours and days for one tax investigator to get the necessary authorities, obtain the invoices from the local Marts and Co-Ops, cross reference all the documents with the local council records to find out who has and hasn't paid either the Household or Sceptic charges.

The tax dept just doesn't have the staff to do that. They may select one in 10,000 for a review of tax paid and part of that might be a check on the domestic charges.

I will not be paying either of the charges for 2 simple reasons. 1. I get no benefit from them, and 2, I cannot afford it.

I get a fella drive along the road outside once a year and he chucks down a shovel full of cold tar in the worst of the potholes. Beyond that nothing.

TT
I mean everybody will pay this charge, through PAYE or self employed tax sys. Not just the initial refusnicks.
They brought in the universal social charge, in this way. It is far, far, far, more expensive than the household charge. Yet we all pay, because we have no way out of it.
Sensible and smart way for the government to collect the household charge is in the same way.
That way, the Ming Flanagans and his kind don't get to be heroes.
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29-02-2012, 14:38   #9
Western Pomise
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Just saw on the tinternet that if % of people paying Household charge is low coming up to mid March Govt are considering stiffening up the penalties for non compliance.....we are getting more and more to be a nanny state....but I am coming around to the way of thinking that if a hundred euro contribution helps some poor divil get an ambulance or fire brigade when its needed ya might sleep easier at night if ya paid it
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29-02-2012, 14:50   #10
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but I am coming around to the way of thinking that if a hundred euro contribution helps some poor divil get an ambulance or fire brigade when its needed ya might sleep easier at night if ya paid it
Don't believe the lies.
This charge will be paying for private ambulances and fire brigades in France and Germany............ but not here.

Last edited by mikom; 29-02-2012 at 14:52.
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29-02-2012, 14:54   #11
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....but I am coming around to the way of thinking that if a hundred euro contribution helps some poor divil get an ambulance or fire brigade when its needed ya might sleep easier at night if ya paid it
Ya, and it could go a long way to paying some poor retired teacher & County Councillor's expenses because its so hard to survive on a state pension and councillors salary.

If our local authorities demonstrated that they weren't going to squander this money, I would gladly pay for it. But you and I both know that none of this €100 is destined to pay for ambulance or fire services. Instead, this €100 is to keep people in cushy numbers!!!
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29-02-2012, 15:14   #12
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Just saw on the tinternet that if % of people paying Household charge is low coming up to mid March Govt are considering stiffening up the penalties for non compliance.....we are getting more and more to be a nanny state....but I am coming around to the way of thinking that if a hundred euro contribution helps some poor divil get an ambulance or fire brigade when its needed ya might sleep easier at night if ya paid it
The poor old TD's need ink for their printers and it has to be the branded product not any old spurious ink at 10% of the price also we need mony to plan for childern's hospital now that 35 million has been wasted, and all those high ranking CS who need to be moved to europe need a handout.
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29-02-2012, 15:27   #13
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i am going to pay the €100 once WH Co co pay me back for the €3200 damage they and there contractors cause to my property in Jan 2010.

Fu8kers.

(Mods im naming and shaming cause i have there written confession that they caused the damage and were going to fix it)
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29-02-2012, 15:29   #14
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Lads, remember that this €100 is going to be used to fund local authorities only. It doesn't go into the main government pot. It doesn't go near healthcare. Much of it is earmarked for paying the salaries of local councillors and for to pay for local authorities office costs!!
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29-02-2012, 18:13   #15
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Personally I have no real problem with a household tax.. The crux of the problem is that this was rushed in to impress Europe by showing that we were doing something they wanted..
If it were on house size/site value or some other graded system as is the norm in lots of countries I think I'd sign up in a heartbeat.. One size fits all taxes are sloppy and lazy government... Having said that I have a feeling I'll pay up in the hope the system will be amended to a fairer one by next year..

I am also in full appreciation that the €100 is a toe in the door and the final tax will be multiples of that..
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