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25-02-2012, 01:06   #151
Guy:Incognito
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Your choice.
I'm still allowed have one of those? Cool.
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25-02-2012, 01:06   #152
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If anything, the self righteousness and moral indignation pushes me further towards the opposit e pole of thinking from yours. It;s the people that make such an effort of forcign their opinions on others that make me want to stop beign so lazy come election or referendum times and make sure I get off my arse and vote, maybe every do some campaigning to make sure other similar minded people do the same.


+1..

I'd take time off work to go vote for this, and I've never voted before in my life!
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25-02-2012, 01:08   #153
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JimiTime:

Abortion is not a light decision for anyone. you've obviously never been in that position so you have no place to comment on that.
Maybe you could point out where I said it was? maybe you mistook my comment about a doctor making a decision for a comment about a would be mother?

But as a point of note, I only know two women who have had abortions, and on both accounts, it WAS a pretty light decision. It was as simple, and as matter of fact as, "We're just not ready for kids". Don't get me wrong, they weren't thrilled about going in to do it, but for selfish reasons I.E. The procedure is not pleasant. Now, I don't use these cases to generalise what people who have abortions think or feel, but it certainly poo poo's your point about abortion not being a light decision for anyone. As shocking as it may be, it is just that for some.
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25-02-2012, 01:08   #154
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+1..

I'd take time off work to go vote for this, and I've never voted before in my life!
If you did vote, you'd be kickin yourself anyway. Bloody government....They put out one hand to offer to help you up and then they kick you in the nuts when you accept their hand.
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25-02-2012, 01:08   #155
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All I'm saying is that you wouldn't care if your grandchildren were aborted. Right?
Might I ask what place a parent has in making long term decisions for their adult children? It has absolutely nothing to do with them.
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By violating her baby's body through abortion, the mother would be no better than the person who violated her body through rape, in fact it may be worse, as one is the killing of another human being!
What a lovely sentiment, seriously, just beautiful, shows such Christian compassion and understanding for other human beings. Do you really deem that an acceptable way for someone who views themselves as Christian to speak of others?

What's wrong with bringing a bit of humanity into the hardline arguments? This kind of stuff is absolutely disgusting, how is anyone meant to listen to the moral position who would speak about a victim as such? I could easily argue the case against abortion for rape victims, even though I only agree with it as an option alongside it's opposite, and I could do it with respect and consideration.
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25-02-2012, 01:09   #156
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If anything, the self righteousness and moral indignation pushes me further towards the opposit e pole of thinking from yours. It;s the people that make such an effort of forcign their opinions on others that make me want to stop beign so lazy come election or referendum times and make sure I get off my arse and vote, maybe every do some campaigning to make sure other similar minded people do the same.
You don't have to read what I write if you don't like it. That's your choice.

I'm not forcing my opinion on you. It's your choice to read it.

You're the one who thinks it's ok to murder innocent babies, as long as they're not yours.

I want to stop that kind of thinking becoming law. That's my choice.
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25-02-2012, 01:11   #157
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I'm not forcing my opinion on you. It's your choice to read it.
.
By removing or blocking someones choice on abortion because you dont believe in it you are forcing your opinions on others.
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25-02-2012, 01:13   #158
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You're the one who thinks it's ok to murder innocent babies, as long as they're not yours. .
When did I say its ok as long as its not mine? I want me and my partner to have the choice of whether or not to do it . I'd just choose not to. She happens to share my opinion. I could just as easily have met someone that would do it. I'm sure theres plenty of men walking around now not knowing that a former partner had an abortion and it hasnt affected their lives by not knowing.
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25-02-2012, 01:16   #159
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Might I ask what place a parent has in making long term decisions for their adult children? It has absolutely nothing to do with them.
There are laws our grandparents and great grandparents made that are affecting us and will affect out grandchildren.

Likewise there are laws we will be involved in making now - NAMA and the current austerity measures would be a good example from a different perspective - that will affect generations to come.

That's the way the world works.
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25-02-2012, 01:16   #160
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You don't have to read what I write if you don't like it. That's your choice.

I'm not forcing my opinion on you. It's your choice to read it.

You're the one who thinks it's ok to murder innocent babies, as long as they're not yours.

I want to stop that kind of thinking becoming law. That's my choice.
All things aside Festus; Your tone is both disgusting as well as provoking and does nothing to persuade anyone towards your view. Abortion is, in my opinion wrong, but I do understand that sometimes, some people find it necessary and that is "their choice". Throwing "murder" at them is just wrong. If you feel that strongly about protecting the unborn, then I suggest this is not the place to get anything done. Get up and be productive.
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25-02-2012, 01:16   #161
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In general, yes, grey areas make bad laws for grey wording, but confusingly enough you can address the grey areas in black and white, just because it has not been done here does not mean it cannot be.

Lets take the substantial risk to the life of the mother thing, if the words substantial and risk are clearly defined that concept can work as intended, or as presented. I already mentioned the doctrine of double effect, that could be deemed to be a foray into the grey on the part of Catholicism, but despite that it still makes it very clear what is acceptable and what is not in situations which are about as far from black and white as moral decisions can get.

As for my own position on abortion, I'm not sure of it overall, but I do believe if a woman is likely to die (as measured by a specified degree of probability evident from medical knowledge) without an abortion, it's just inhumane to withhold it in this country, the idea that we do this to women quite disgusts me in fact, how can defending it be deemed morally right?
As it stands, and in reality the womans life and that of the childs is weighed carefully by medical staff. These decisions are made every single day, but not in a 'news worthy' way - So too is making the passing from life to death made easy by medical means too - but not by Euthansia - just by pain killing and family love -

The problem is, that when legislation is introduced where a prospective mums diagnosis overides that of a new life for any given thing, and I'm not talking hard cases or the 'Trojan Horse' - well who gets to say how valuable a child is? Who dares to introduce or open that gate? Where does it lead...? We've come so far from that already..

I don't know, all I do know is that it's not for me, or something I would like to see legislated for in the country I own now, but my offspring will inherit and it's shape will take the form of my decision along with those I stand on the shoulders of too. I don't feel the need to conform, I think there 'must' be a better way, and I'm willing to look for it, just as willing as I am to support a social welfare state by working to the best of my ability to sustain it.
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25-02-2012, 01:18   #162
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There are laws our grandparents and great grandparents made that are affecting us and will affect out grandchildren.
.
Laws need to be updated and changed as the world does. Ireland is thankfully a much different place than it was when my grandparents were my age.

Just to brign in a similar but different angle since its mentioned above, I also very much support a person right to euthanasia.

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25-02-2012, 01:19   #163
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When did I say its ok as long as its not mine?
when you said this...

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I wouldnt want my girlfriend to ever get an abortion but I'm very much pro choice.
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25-02-2012, 01:21   #164
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All things aside Festus; Your tone is both disgusting as well as provoking and does nothing to persuade anyone towards your view. Abortion is, in my opinion wrong, but I do understand that sometimes, some people find it necessary and that is "their choice". Throwing "murder" at them is just wrong. If you feel that strongly about protecting the unborn, then I suggest this is not the place to get anything done. Get up and be productive.
In your opinion. Ifyou don't like my tone that's fine. Put me on your ignore list. It's your choice to read me.

Unfortunatley abortion is disgusting and in fact is murder. That is the reality of it. All that abortion produces is dead babies, broken mothers and wealthy "doctors".
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25-02-2012, 01:21   #165
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when you said this...
That doesn't add up...
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