[neuro-praxis]

I am very distressed by abortion and completely against it.

I do have people in my life that have had abortions and it doesn't affect how much I love them.

However I would not hold someone's hand as they went through the process of an abortion. Some people might judge me for that but I would be a hypocrite if I did.

I would be willing to hold their hand afterwards, and love them and support them. But I could never be in favour of what they had done because it would go against my very nature.

[Wibbs]

Originally Posted by tiny_penguin

I fully believe you dont truly know what you would do unless you are in the situation. But like I said, what I would or would not do is irrelevent to my non judgement of others.

This. Personally I'd not judge either pro life or pro choice people. Life is too short. If I have an overly vehement reaction to someone's opinions I usually step back and ask myself why, because in me is where I'll usually find the answer.

Personally? As TP pointed out opinions such as they are tend to be upset when actually faced with reality, so any opinion I might have at the moment is conjecture, a philosophy if you will. However(and again personally) outside of the yays or nays I do take issue where the potential father is not consulted on the matter, indeed considered by some extraneous to the proceedings(obviously outside abuse/rape type scenarios). A friend of a friends partner had an abortion and he only found out after the fact about the pregnancy and subsequent termination. They stayed together(though to be frank why sprang to mind). Then around two years later she fell pregnant again and this time decided to go to term and keep the child and he was left in no confusion that she expected him to provide for her and the child. Again no consultation on the matter. In that case and I agree it is somewhat of an extreme, my response would be two words involving sex and travel. Her body and right to do with it as she pleased? Maybe even certainly, but don't expect me to pay for or guilt me into any unilateral decisions you may make on behalf of it. That dog won't hunt. Some sort of equivalence might be a guy who unilaterally decides to get the snip and doesn't tell his partner. After all it's his body to do with as he pleases right? Eh no, sod off mate.

[Neyite]

My thinking on this issue has evolved over the years - I started off in my teens as utterly pro-life (thanks to seeing the horrific pictures that the pro-life movement like to show).

Then the X- Case came along when I was 16 and Ireland had a suicidal child pregnant as a result of being raped by a pedophile challenge the issue and some people changed their view to "as long as its to save the life of the mother or if the fetus was unviable" I agreed with that view then.

however, as more and more of my friends faced crisis pregnancies, some with no support from family, or a partner, or maybe through no fault of their own contraception failed and I saw that it is not as black and white as I had initially thought, and saw that there are many reasons for a woman choosing to make such a difficult decision.

Then a few months ago on the thread "your right to an abortion, NomdePlume posted this:

This isn't about the right to life, then. It's not about the foetus at all; it's about the woman, her level of fault, and her comeuppance.

If it's your fault that you got pregnant, you must endure the pregnancy or be termed a murderer. You are not allowed off the hook.

If it's not your fault, because you were raped, you are entitled to an abortion. We won't term you a murderer because, well, you weren't a slut.
In other words, we never really considered it murder; we just use that word to shame the girls we don't like.

So this shaped my thinking even more on the issue. I believe now that the circumstances of a crisis pregnancy are irrelevant. An unwanted pregnancy is an unwanted pregnancy, irrespective of how the baby was concieved.

I have never been in the situation where I was facing a crisis pregnancy. My first positive test was one that was long awaited and the happiest news for my partner and I.

However, I do believe that counselling services should be provided in tandem with any abortions performed and I believe that early scans get re-introduced into our maternity units - this 20+ weeks for a first scan is ludicrous - I was visibly pregnant and baby moving at that stage.

I could not judge a friend for making that decision. To me, friendship is accepting a person unjudgementally.

[krudler]

Wouldnt affect my view of someone at all, I know one person who had an abortion, I dont know the exact details just that she had one, I didnt ask as its absolutely none of my business and doesnt affect my friendship with her in the slightest, its not an easy choice to make no matter what the situation I'd imagine. life isnt always as black and white as "oh well you should've used protection" no contraceptive is 100%, my sister was on the pill when she got pregnant, condoms break etc. if someone has taken precautions to avoid a pregnancy and get pregnant long before they ever plan having a child or want to have them at all and decide to have an abortion then thats their choice.

[bronte]

Think it should be legal.
Wouldn't judge anyone for having one.
Wouldn't tolerate judgement from others if I had one.

Originally Posted by lazygal

I find pro-life people are usually pro life until the baby comes. Are Youth Defence going to raise an unwanted child for a women? Going to give her financial, emotional and practical support? I don't think so, once the baby is here they don't give a sh!t about it and I'd wager a lot of those groups are the same.

This is something I've noticed recently.
A lot of the time it's about controlling the woman and nothing else.

[neuro-praxis]

Originally Posted by bronte

This is something I've noticed recently.
A lot of the time it's about controlling the woman and nothing else.

You may well be right here. But I would gladly, gladly take the unwanted child of anyone who felt they could not raise it. I sincerely mean that.

[bronte]

Originally Posted by neuro-praxis

You may well be right here. But I would gladly, gladly take the unwanted child of anyone who felt they could not raise it. I sincerely mean that.

I believe you. Not saying for a second that all pro-lifers are like that.
Just that there's an element of control that drives many of them.

[seenitall]

Originally Posted by neuro-praxis

I am very distressed by abortion and completely against it.

I do have people in my life that have had abortions and it doesn't affect how much I love them.

However I would not hold someone's hand as they went through the process of an abortion. Some people might judge me for that but I would be a hypocrite if I did.

I would be willing to hold their hand afterwards, and love them and support them. But I could never be in favour of what they had done because it would go against my very nature.

As a pro-choicer, I admire this POV so much, as it is staying true to one's principles while also retaining care and acceptance of vulnerable people. IMO.

I am very pro-choice, but for me there are differences as to the timing of the termination. I wouldn't be too happy with people having late-term abortions - I think that aspect has been mentioned on-thread already.

Having the option of that choice is the main thing.

[Ickle Magoo]

It's clearly about more than raising a child - as an adoptee I can't stand seeing the whole adoption/"just" give the child up line being trotted out as the panacea to unwanted pregnancy like there is no life-long repercussions there, for mother or child...

As to the abortion issue - I have friends who have had the MAP, who have had abortions and I have an IUD - seems a rather arbitrary line between them as far as I can see so I certainly wouldn't judge.

I do, however, judge a political system/country/legal system that relies on being able to export the "issue" en masse to it's nearest neighbour so some can piously & hypocritically claim moral supremacy on these shores.

[Giselle]

Originally Posted by neuro-praxis

I am very distressed by abortion and completely against it.

I do have people in my life that have had abortions and it doesn't affect how much I love them.

However I would not hold someone's hand as they went through the process of an abortion. Some people might judge me for that but I would be a hypocrite if I did.

I would be willing to hold their hand afterwards, and love them and support them. But I could never be in favour of what they had done because it would go against my very nature.

Thank you for that post neuro-praxis, because it articulates better than I could how I feel about the issue.

I have two people I'm close to who have had abortions, and their choices are theirs to make, not for me to utter judgement on.

I'm loathe to use the words Pro-life. conjuring up as it they do a religious fanatic that cares nothing for context or compassion. And I don't believe anyone is Pro-abortion (everyone should have one!) per se. I think the majority of abortions are carried out after agonising soul searching on behalf of the parents. At least, I hope they are.

As pregnancy progresses the prospect of abortion becomes progressively more horrific in my eyes, but most horrific of all is (multiple) abortion as contraception. In the western world, repeated abortions, where there is safe reliable contraception, should not exist.

I would never respond to a relevation of a friend having an abortion with anything other than compassion, but I know its a choice that is personally unacceptable to me.

[neuro-praxis]

Originally Posted by Ickle Magoo

It's clearly about more than raising a child - as an adoptee I can't stand seeing the whole adoption/"just" give the child up line being trotted out as the panacea to unwanted pregnancy like there is no life-long repercussions there, for mother or child...

I understand what you're saying, but I am not saying "just give up the child" to anyone. I am saying, should you wish to go through with the pregnancy, I will support you as far as and including to the point of actually raising the child. You can probably agree that it is better that you have lived (with repercussions) and been raised by adoptive parents, than that you died. You have certainly been a gift to countless people.

[bronte]

Originally Posted by Ickle Magoo

It's clearly about more than raising a child - as an adoptee I can't stand seeing the whole adoption/"just" give the child up line being trotted out as the panacea to unwanted pregnancy like there is no life-long repercussions there, for mother or child...

Ugh...this too.
I'm also adopted and truly hate when adoption is the "answer" to the situation. Anyone who caught the recent Joe Duffy show should have an idea of what can happen. A woman has the right to move on with her life after giving a child up for adoption, but that doesn't stop some people still persisting in tracking her down. I was shocked at the attitudes of some of the adopted people.
Why should the woman have to face further unwanted emotional turmoil years after the event?

[Da Shins Kelly]

Originally Posted by Ickle Magoo

I do, however, judge a political system/country/legal system that relies on being able to export the "issue" en masse to it's nearest neighbour so some can piously & hypocritically claim moral supremacy on these shores.

This is a very important point too.

[Ickle Magoo]

Originally Posted by neuro-praxis

I understand what you're saying, but I am not saying "just give up the child" to anyone. I am saying, should you wish to go through with the pregnancy, I will support you as far as and including to the point of actually raising the child. You can probably agree that it is better that you have lived (with repercussions) and been raised by adoptive parents, than that you died.

I don't agree - in that I can't see past it being a really crappy argument made from a purely selfish view point under the guise of being all caring. Let's face it, I'd be none the wiser had I never existed & neither would anyone else so it's actually a moot argument. Having children and being an unwanted child can and does ruin peoples lives and cause untold misery and hurt - within a specific time-frame I think there should be the right to attend counselling and, if that's still the path they wish to take, abortion.

It's not something I think I could ever do - medical emergency aside - but I can certainly understand and see occasions where not being pregnant or not having children is a much more rational choice than life at all costs.

[chirogirl]

I would never judge any woman for opting to have an abortion. Its the toughest decision ever to make. I do have friends that have had them due to differing circumstances. Though one friend has told me that she did regret it and still does.

When I found out I was pregnant, I knew I'd end up being a single parent (not by choice) and the thought of a termination did cross my mind. But I realised that it wasn't the end of the world for me and I now have a 6 month old that I couldn't imagine being without, she's the world to me.

However, If I was 10-20 years younger I may have opted for a termination.