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29-02-2012, 18:35   #91
MadsL
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When I've taken out small business loans previously it was all based around personal guarantees not on any assets.
My previous boss, 25 so employees, 9 years trading, was asked to put his and two other directors houses up for collateral for a 'high-street' Irish bank to extend the business banking facility.
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29-02-2012, 22:59   #92
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My previous boss, 25 so employees, 9 years trading, was asked to put his and two other directors houses up for collateral for a 'high-street' Irish bank to extend the business banking facility.
I'm talking about sums less than 20 grand and before the bust. Is that the case with your ex-boss?
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15-03-2012, 13:52   #93
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http://www.thejournal.ie/laois-homeo...85195-Mar2012/

As many people thought would happen. It appears that the sheriff turned up when there was no one there and continued with the eviction, so the thread title should really be "people power slightly delays eviction"
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15-03-2012, 16:35   #94
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He's 'demoralized'???

My god, he hasn't paid a red cent towards the property (of which the dole would probably easily cover repayments) in years. What does he expect?

More the fools who went to stand up for him.



edit: And I also see 'The Journal' makes no mention of the amount owed and the amount of time passed without payment.
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15-03-2012, 16:43   #95
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URGENT - The SHERIFF BROKE IN ASSISTED BY GARDI and CHANGED THE LOCKS!

^^ on youtube video.

More freeman ****e
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15-03-2012, 16:55   #96
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Realistically there is a massive lack of understanding regarding how mortgages operate. The mortgagor, while having the appearance of owning the home, actually only has an equitable right to use the home as they wish – obviously this is heavily dependant on them making the agreed repayments.
The mortgagee (the lender) actually owns the home/property; their contract with the mortgagor is clearly subject to protection both statutorily, in the laws of equity and in common law. However, once the mortgagee has applied to the courts for possession then they are entitled to evict the inhabitants out of the property.

If you think it's easy to get an order for possession, it's not. You have to prove multiple things to the courts, comply with the Family Home Protection Act and jump through many hoops. I have been in court on both sides of this situation (although admittedly more often for the banks) and I can tell you that borrowers/mortgagors are given every possible opportunity to make good on their payments – this, compounded with the massive amount of statutory protection in place for mortgagors and an onus on the mortgagee to negotiate and deal with the mortgagors puts the borrower in a very strong position.
Oh hell no. Thats feudalism. As legal mod you know this. You do own your home and the lender retains a security interest in your home (in the form of amortgage lien).

From a purely practical point of view, there are disadvantages to this as with the property market bottomed out the way it currently is, the lender usually prefers to restructure the debt and use the lien for negotiating leverage. But if there is no realistic prospect of ever fulfilling the terms of the loan then it may seize the property. That in itself is expensive in legal fees, auctioneers fees and the lender has to hold a physical asset that is worth far less than the loan and which is extremely difficult to sell. At that point it really sucks for everyone involved but it sucks more for whoever is losing their home. Every one of these people will have unique personal circumstances so I cannot and will not tar all defaulters with a broad brush. Some people's personal circumstances will be more sympathetic to the public than others.

What you described is called feudalism. Nevertheless, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the tragedy in this for the people getting evicted has no idea what its like to be hounded by solicitors. No idea what its like to live between county registrar court dates and have every aspect of your personal finances blown wide open for all in open court to see. No idea what its like to experience such a sudden and dramatic shift in the quality of your life.

Last edited by Hayte; 16-03-2012 at 10:10.
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15-03-2012, 19:36   #97
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edit: And I also see 'The Journal' makes no mention of the amount owed and the amount of time passed without payment.
Can anyone confirm just what are the details on this?
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15-03-2012, 19:59   #98
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Can anyone confirm just what are the details on this?
http://www.thejournal.ie/i-stopped-t...62020-Feb2012/

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A GROUP OF housing activists and an independent TD prevented an attempted eviction of a man from his home in Laois yesterday.
A collection of housing groups and the People Before Profit TD Joan Collins were in Mountrath to prevent the deputy sheriff, accompanied by the gardaí, from evicting a man from his home, arguing that their actions were not constitutional.
It was the first such case of People Before Profit, Freedom From All Debt, the Defend Our Homes League, Its Not Our Debt and the Anti-Eviction Task Force coming together to defend a home from repossession.
Collins told TheJournal.ie that it won’t be the last: “The main aim is that there will be no evictions or repossessions of family homes in Ireland.”
Lee Wellstead, 47, was facing eviction from his home having lost in his battle against Ulster Bank in the Commercial Court, the Laois Nationalist explains.
He had bought the three-bedroom property on four acres of land in Knockanina - near Mountrath and Castletown - in 2003 for €80,000 and then acquired a top loan on the mortgage of €30,000. Having failed to keep up with repayments, the bank pursued him and was granted a repossession order last year, the paper reports.

Collins said she heard about Wellstead’s story and travelled to Laois with the other groups to help him defend his home.
In the video entitled ‘Constitution Halts Sheriff’ Ben Gilroy from Freedom from All Debt argues with the deputy sheriff, Pat Dunne, that it is unconstitutional for him to attempt to evict Wellstead from his home.
After a lengthy argument the sheriff and the accompanying garda officers depart:

“We’re trying to work on two fronts,” Collins told TheJournal.ie “We’re defending people from evictions but we’re also going to put our own bill through the Dáil in relation to homeowners and to help them when they are in distress with their mortgage.”
The story was first flagged by Politics.ie and has been written about by the NAMA Wine Lake blog today. It notes that some 600 properties are repossessed each year according to the latest figures from the Central Bank.
Collins said they hoped yesterday’s successful blocking of the eviction can raise awareness of their campaign: “What he wanted to do is highlight that people will stand with these people facing eviction if people ask us to do it.
“Some people are particularly ashamed of letting people know what they’re going through. They are fearful that they are in debt and people knowing about it. We’re trying to get the word out so people can know that we will stand with them if they are evicted.”
Collins said that in Wellstead’s case, the sheriff will now have to seek another order for eviction and added: “We’ll be back down again if he does do that.”
“These banks gave out these loans in full knowledge that people were strapped and now they’re saying we’re going to take them back and they’ll be forced into social housing. But there’s no room on the social housing list for these people to be accommodated,” she added.

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/tabI...e-sheriff.aspx

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A MOUNTRATH man remains in his house today after a county sheriff failed to evict him from his home yesterday (Monday).

Lee Wellstead (47) has been battling through the commercial courts for the past three years to save his home after being served with an eviction notice from Ulster Bank.

Mr Wellstead said that in 2003 he purchased the three-bedroom, two storey detached house in Knockanina, between Mountrath and Castletown, on approximately four acres of land with a mortgage for €80,000.

Shortly after that, he acquired a €30,000 top-up loan on the mortgage.

He said he fell behind in his €700 monthly repayments in June 2006 and the loan was called in “just 19 days after I missed my last monthly payment”.

Ulster Bank filed for repossession and was granted the order in February 2009. It got its eviction order on 25 August last year.

He said: “I tried to come to arrangements with them, but they refused it. I had an offer of €80,000 on the house and was also receiving €150 a week from letting three stables. But they refused to accept that.”

Speaking to the Laois Nationalist while waiting for the arrival of the county sheriff , Mr Wellstead said that if the bank is successful in evicting him, he will become homeless, which would put in jeopardy his shared custody arrangements for his daughter.

“They will come and seize everything I have in the house and throw it out onto the roadside. I haven’t got anywhere to go yet.”

Mr Wellstead said that the ordeal has put him under mental and physical stress.

“I’ve had to put my life on hold for the past three years to try and deal with this. It caused me huge anxiety and torment.”

He hasn't been paying a cent since June 2006. Also, he tried to argue with the judge that the bank, in fact, had no right to the deeds of the house based on an argument straight out of Zeitgeist!

He's a bloody chancer. I would advise anyone on this guy's side to at least question his motives.
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15-03-2012, 20:23   #99
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Originally Posted by meglome View Post
Can anyone confirm just what are the details on this?
http://www.courts.ie/__80256F2B00356...,~language_en~

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However, as is made clear on page 28 of the said judgment, that case in fact has no relevance to the present case given the fact that the charge in question in the present case is dated 14th March 2003, and the order for possession itself was made in February 2009.

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The applicant is also seeking leave to argue that Ulster Bank have no longer any entitlement to benefit from the order for possession because as part of some unspecified securitisation agreement the bank has sold the applicant’s mortgage, and is therefore no longer owed anything on foot of the mortgage herein.


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Every allowance has been made by me for the fact that the applicant appears personally. Equally, he has been greatly indulged since August 2011 by stays being granted so that he could put his best foot forward on the present application. But there comes a time when this must come to an end, so that those for whose benefit the order for possession was made can have the benefit of it.

For all the reasons stated, I therefore must refuse leave to seek the reliefs being sought. Given the time of year approaching I will grant one final stay to expire on the 10th January 2012, after which date the bank will be entitled to enforce the order for possession and recover possession.
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15-03-2012, 22:03   #100
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Ouch. Lay litigant botches his own case by running out statutory time limit to appeal the original repo order then presses for discovery when its irrelevant.

I kind of wish he had a solicitor who wouldn't allow that to happen, but in so many respects, it seems that money = access. Its Mr. Justice Peart though, and he is well aware of the problem of money and access in the legal profession at least. He spoke about it at a seminar in Ballina not too long ago.

Last edited by Hayte; 15-03-2012 at 22:08.
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16-03-2012, 20:44   #101
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I can't believe people are attempting to defend this man. He hasn't paid a cent towards his home since 2006, before the world went arseways and while Ireland was neck deep in euros.

Chancing arsehole who deserves to be tossed out.
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16-03-2012, 21:24   #102
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I can't believe people are attempting to defend this man. He hasn't paid a cent towards his home since 2006, before the world went arseways and while Ireland was neck deep in euros.

Chancing arsehole who deserves to be tossed out.
Is it clear as to whether both loans on the property were from the same lender (UBL)

Are there any interviews with this unfortunate fellow,I'd like to hear him speak ....
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