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ToiletFusion · 23-02-2012, 18:58

The fact the Haye found the need to catapult himself straight into the Wlad fight as opposing to earning it by beating any of the likes of Adamek, Arreloa, Povetkin, Chagaev or anyone who's been deemed half decent the last few years is always going to be detriment.

He hasn't fought anyone of worth in the division, and when he had his chance he fought cautious and almost scared of Wlad.

The right thing to do would be to come back, take on a few contenders, build himself up and take another crack at it, all the while becoming more comfortable at the weight, maybe building it up more gradually and learning from the experience of actually fighting some proper heavyweights.

He won't do that... so it's very hard to defend him, regardless of his physical attributes.

He talked himself into a heavyweight title fight with little merit, rode the British hype train right to the top. It went tits up for him, and he's still has preconceived notions of his standing in the boxing world.

RiseToTheTop · 23-02-2012, 22:09

He hasn't fought anyone of note in the division? Well i'm sorry but if that's the case then until Wladimir fought Haye he didn't fight anyone of note in the HW division for a long while too.

**cowzerp** · 23-02-2012, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiseToTheTop

He hasn't fought anyone of note in the division? Well i'm sorry but if that's the case then until Wladimir fought Haye he didn't fight anyone of note in the HW division for a long while too.

Your hate for the brothers is blinding you, Haye fought no one ranked, this is a fact-it's hard to take you serious when your just skipping facts and making out Haye has done anything of note at heavy, you can't even say he fought Wlad as he just ran away

walshb · 23-02-2012, 22:20

Whatever about Wlad and Vit, Haye is just a joke. Haye has no claim to be called a threat or elite HW. All talk, and no action. Let's see him do it in the ring.Beating Valuev and Ruiz and getting well beaten by Wlad says little to me.

If Haye fights and beats Vit I will applaud and praise him.

RiseToTheTop · 24-02-2012, 00:01

Hate for the brothers? If the Klitschko put up an entertaining match I would like that match, i'd give them praise.

But IMO Wladimir's Heavyweight resume in the last couple of years is no more spectacular than Haye's. Sam Peter? Tony Thompson? Ray Austin? A Hasim Rahman 6-7 years past his best? I'm sorry but this doesn't exactly dance on top of Haye's heavyweight record.

Jean-Marc Mormeck next.

ToiletFusion · 24-02-2012, 04:55

Who would you have had the brothers fight during that timeframe?

Wlad and Vitali fight anyone that steps up, the likes of Valuev and Povetkin decided to turn down fights with either brother.

Their reign mightn't look amazing on paper but they beat what was put in front of them as opposed to Haye who skipped the contenders and jumped straight into the money fight.

If you were defending Haye, as a boxer in general I could see where you're coming from, as his cruiserweight reign was impressive, and it might balance things out a bit.

But as a heavyweight alone, Haye has been poor...

RiseToTheTop · 24-02-2012, 14:52

Well he did talk his way into the title a good bit. But he did beat Valuev for the title. But in all fairness he only fought Monte Barrett at Heavyweight and got the title shot then. I think his cruiserweight legacy helped him greatly.

IMO if you put him in the ring with Adamek, he would have won by KO. Haye is not from the same cloth as the opponents the Klitschkos have faced. The guys we have never heard of but have 32-0 records.

**cowzerp** · 24-02-2012, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiseToTheTop

The guys we have never heard of but have 32-0 records.

You've never heard of them because there eastern europeans and not on tele over here ever. its that simple, David haye was on sky news every day and soccer am loads of times, had his own program too and this is why he is known, most people who know him would never of seen him box at cruiserweight and only seen him v Barret which was awful and then Wlad which he chose not to fight.

Daroxtar · 24-02-2012, 18:31

John Ruiz anyone? Sure he's piss poor but he was ranked , a former champ and Haye did a number on him too.

I actually think that when Haye comes to fight he can be decent. He has good hand speed and he can actually bang a bit. I'd back him to beat most of the other ranked fighters out there if he threw punches instead of doing laps of the ring. Ya he's a cocky twat but he's hardly the first of that type.

corny · 24-02-2012, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daroxtar

I actually think that when Haye comes to fight he can be decent. He has good hand speed and he can actually bang a bit. I'd back him to beat most of the other ranked fighters out there if he threw punches instead of doing laps of the ring.

I think you're right.

Physically he could be a very capable heavyweight indeed. Quick for big man, good on his feet and although never proven at heavy he had decent power as a cruiserweight. All of the things that make people question him as a fighter are all mental imo. The fights he chooses, the way he fights, the way he promotes himself, his delusions of grandeur etc. Personally i don't think he cares about the fight game at all. Which is a shame because he's only 31 and he's taken very little punishment as a pro. He could justify his position in the division very easily for me but alas he doesn't want to. The money is all he's after.

Dusty87 · 24-02-2012, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by walshb

Whatever about Wlad and Vit, Haye is just a joke. Haye has no claim to be called a threat or elite HW. All talk, and no action. Let's see him do it in the ring.Beating Valuev and Ruiz and getting well beaten by Wlad says little to me.

If Haye fights and beats Vit I will applaud and praise him.

ya could and ya couldn b.
i agree vit won against 'del boy', but he did look like age was catching up to me. So maybe thats on haye's side. On the other hand, against chisora, maybe he didnt need that second gear.

ToiletFusion · 25-02-2012, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty87

ya could and ya couldn b.
i agree vit won against 'del boy', but he did look like age was catching up to me. So maybe thats on haye's side. On the other hand, against chisora, maybe he didnt need that second gear.

He apparently hurt his shoulder in the 2nd or 3rd round.

23-02-2012, 18:58	#391
ToiletFusion Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kerry Posts: 987 Adverts \| Friends	The fact the Haye found the need to catapult himself straight into the Wlad fight as opposing to earning it by beating any of the likes of Adamek, Arreloa, Povetkin, Chagaev or anyone who's been deemed half decent the last few years is always going to be detriment. He hasn't fought anyone of worth in the division, and when he had his chance he fought cautious and almost scared of Wlad. The right thing to do would be to come back, take on a few contenders, build himself up and take another crack at it, all the while becoming more comfortable at the weight, maybe building it up more gradually and learning from the experience of actually fighting some proper heavyweights. He won't do that... so it's very hard to defend him, regardless of his physical attributes. He talked himself into a heavyweight title fight with little merit, rode the British hype train right to the top. It went tits up for him, and he's still has preconceived notions of his standing in the boxing world. Last edited by ToiletFusion; 24-02-2012 at 04:49. Reason: spellings

23-02-2012, 22:20	#394
walshb Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15,932 Adverts \| Friends	Whatever about Wlad and Vit, Haye is just a joke. Haye has no claim to be called a threat or elite HW. All talk, and no action. Let's see him do it in the ring.Beating Valuev and Ruiz and getting well beaten by Wlad says little to me. If Haye fights and beats Vit I will applaud and praise him. Last edited by walshb; 24-02-2012 at 17:06. Reason: Spelling

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23-02-2012, 22:09	#392
RiseToTheTop Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 938 Adverts \| Friends	He hasn't fought anyone of note in the division? Well i'm sorry but if that's the case then until Wladimir fought Haye he didn't fight anyone of note in the HW division for a long while too.

24-02-2012, 00:01	#395
RiseToTheTop Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 938 Adverts \| Friends	Hate for the brothers? If the Klitschko put up an entertaining match I would like that match, i'd give them praise. But IMO Wladimir's Heavyweight resume in the last couple of years is no more spectacular than Haye's. Sam Peter? Tony Thompson? Ray Austin? A Hasim Rahman 6-7 years past his best? I'm sorry but this doesn't exactly dance on top of Haye's heavyweight record. Jean-Marc Mormeck next.

24-02-2012, 04:55	#396
ToiletFusion Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kerry Posts: 987 Adverts \| Friends	Who would you have had the brothers fight during that timeframe? Wlad and Vitali fight anyone that steps up, the likes of Valuev and Povetkin decided to turn down fights with either brother. Their reign mightn't look amazing on paper but they beat what was put in front of them as opposed to Haye who skipped the contenders and jumped straight into the money fight. If you were defending Haye, as a boxer in general I could see where you're coming from, as his cruiserweight reign was impressive, and it might balance things out a bit. But as a heavyweight alone, Haye has been poor...

24-02-2012, 14:52	#397
RiseToTheTop Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 938 Adverts \| Friends	Well he did talk his way into the title a good bit. But he did beat Valuev for the title. But in all fairness he only fought Monte Barrett at Heavyweight and got the title shot then. I think his cruiserweight legacy helped him greatly. IMO if you put him in the ring with Adamek, he would have won by KO. Haye is not from the same cloth as the opponents the Klitschkos have faced. The guys we have never heard of but have 32-0 records.

24-02-2012, 18:31	#399
Daroxtar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: In the Kitchen-sync Posts: 2,131 Adverts \| Friends	John Ruiz anyone? Sure he's piss poor but he was ranked , a former champ and Haye did a number on him too. I actually think that when Haye comes to fight he can be decent. He has good hand speed and he can actually bang a bit. I'd back him to beat most of the other ranked fighters out there if he threw punches instead of doing laps of the ring. Ya he's a cocky twat but he's hardly the first of that type.