[gizmo]

Originally Posted by hightower1

When you buy a disk you buy the box, the manual and any code on said disc. That code includes the code to lock any content and all content also. You cannot be sued for breaking your own rightly paid for lock. Nor does the developer own any specific lines of code on a disk you bought.

This is so wrong it actually hurts my head.

[oxo_]

Originally Posted by Varik

There are an abundance of laws that limit what you can do with you own property, with cars being a prime example with many limitation in each country.

I don't think that's true. You can do what you want with your own car, throw on a set of square wheels and a car horn that makes loud fart noises if you wish. However, the car may no longer be roadworthy in the eyes of the law. This nonetheless does not stop you doing what you want with your own car in the first place - or that which you might continue to do and there is nothing there that stops you modifying or changing your car any which way you want too, as it is your own property.
Again though, it may no longer be roadworthy or deemed safe for public roads.

Nothing stopping you driving it on your own private road either as far as I know. G'luck driving with square wheels either way...

[ScumLord]

Originally Posted by oxo_

This nonetheless does not stop you doing what you want with your own car in the first place - or that which you might continue to do and there is nothing there that stops you modifying or changing your car any which way you want too, as it is your own property.

Depends on the contract you sign when you buy the car. Some cars like Bentleys and Ferraris, you can't make those kind of changes and they can take the car off you if you do.

[Retr0gamer]

Originally Posted by ScumLord

Depends on the contract you sign when you buy the car. Some cars like Bentleys and Ferraris, you can't make those kind of changes and they can take the car off you if you do.

I doubt any contract like that would hold any legal water.

Also interesting is that from reading law papers about this subject, some believe that if it was challenged, despite the license agreement if you buy software on a disc you own it regardless of the license and therefore are free to do with it as you please. This would probably include cracking it to get the on disc DLC, although then it's probably protected by copy protection and in some places tampering with this is now an offense.

[Varik]

Originally Posted by Retr0gamer

I doubt any contract like that would hold any legal water.

Never heard of that with car manufactures but there's a lot of this with property Encumbrance.

If you take money from the some cable company or the ESB for the use of some of your property then whoever owns the land after you is stuck with it too, in this case it's call easement.

[oxo_]

I think there can also be a lot of confusion and fuss made around a lot of these laws, or perceived laws, in that most are civil matters but only some (or degree's of some) are deemed criminal.

Isn't this one of the main realistic objections out there against ACTA and so forth, in that big business and corporations are forcing/lobbying governments to make what were once civil matters, now criminal offences ?

For instance, If Nintendo for example were to take issue in the past with modchip discussions on Boards, it would be a civil matter they would have to take up with Boards itself and follow through in the courts.
However, if ACTA and so forth goes through and can be massaged enough legally to cover such items, what were once civil matters can now be pursued as criminal and hence all Nintendo have to do is make a strongly worded complaint to both government and the Gardaí and the onus then lies with the criminal justice system to follow-up and press forward with criminal charges against Boards.
So instead of an entity facing another, or a member of the public, on a civil matter - it's now a criminal offence will the full weight and force of the criminal justice system behind it. In theory, there'd be nothing really stopping the Gardaí raiding Boards' server locations and ripping them out because someone somewhere on here was allowed to discuss and possibly help others with what are in essence, criminal matters.
Not saying they would either, in fact I'd doubt they'd even consider it - unless Boards perchance happened to really upset the government of the day, which then used other excuses as I've mentioned to put undue pressure on the Gardaí to then act against Boards and essentially shut them down.

It's what I'd do anyway if I were running a dictator type government who wanted to silence anyone who might speak out against my rule. Use an excuse as silly as modchip discussion which I've previously made a criminal offence to then shut you down and probably lock most of you away for a few months/years to silence you further.

Just a thought.

Don't vote for me !

[ScumLord]

Originally Posted by Retr0gamer

I doubt any contract like that would hold any legal water.

It exists, have you ever seen a modified Ferrari? It may be that your leasing the car rather than buying it. Ferrari have a car now that even though you pay a million for it, it stays with Ferrari and you can only drive it at tracks.

[Retr0gamer]

Originally Posted by ScumLord

It exists, have you ever seen a modified Ferrari? It may be that your leasing the car rather than buying it. Ferrari have a car now that even though you pay a million for it, it stays with Ferrari and you can only drive it at tracks.

The contract may exist but has it been tested in court? Also why the hell would you modify a Ferrari. As far as consumer law goes, you buy it, you own it, you can do what you want with it and that trumps any contract. That track day Ferrari is probably just leased which is why Ferrari can enforce those regulations.

Ferraris need to be repaired and serviced so much that you'd be stupid to modify it because if you do Ferrari will refuse to carry out these services.

[ShadowHearth]

Originally Posted by Retr0gamer

The contract may exist but has it been tested in court? Also why the hell would you modify a Ferrari. As far as consumer law goes, you buy it, you own it, you can do what you want with it and that trumps any contract. That track day Ferrari is probably just leased which is why Ferrari can enforce those regulations.

Ferraris need to be repaired and serviced so much that you'd be stupid to modify it because if you do Ferrari will refuse to carry out these services.

Wouldnt Arabic oil lords be a perfect example of modified super cars? I have seen a good few modified Bentlies, ferraries, Lambos, mercs etc. they were modified and made like donkeys arse. So I guess that's just shows that if you own it, then you can do whatever the **** to a car.

* sorry, offtopic. I am a petrol head so I needed to let it out

[Dave_The_Sheep]

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

Wouldnt Arabic oil lords be a perfect example of modified super cars? I have seen a good few modified Bentlies, ferraries, Lambos, mercs etc. they were modified and made like donkeys arse. So I guess that's just shows that if you own it, then you can do whatever the **** to a car.

* sorry, offtopic. I am a petrol head so I needed to let it out

If you own it and are so minted and likely to buy loads more flashy expensive cars off the manufacturers and make them loads of dosh, sure. Then you can do whatever the hell you like :-)

Doubt the same can be said for software though. Especially if you're just one punter amongst hundreds of thousands (or thousands, millions, depending on the popularity of the game).

[hightower1]

Originally Posted by Varik

Of course it's copyright theft, but you also do not have the right to circumvent any copy protection measures designed to prevent or restrict access to copyrighted material with only a few exceptions and a back-up is not one of them in the Ireland for one.

I woud disagree with you here, when you buy a disk you are buying teh content on that disk... locked or unlocked. Not supplying the end user with a key to unlock the content is simply a countermeasure not a legal restriction. Its the software equivilent of using anti tampering screws to close a devices case. They are not legal safeguards but a deterent to stop one acessnig areas of a purchased product.

Originally Posted by Varik

Directive 2001/29/EC. which was applied by an amendment to Irish laws clearly says to leave the lock alone.

Can you link a specific line in the text where it will say this? Ijust dont have the time to read the entire document.

Originally Posted by Varik

obviously as the Unreal engine is in nearly everything, but they do licence it and have to themselves obey those terms.

You seem to think the unreal engine creator is based in the game itself? The unreal engine code on a game disc is not the same code used by developers to build games. That is only licenced to devs and does not go on each and ever disk, if you were to add the same program that devs use to build games to each disc the size would be huge.

Originally Posted by Varik

where, Spain you are but the uk you're not and again in Australia you are due to them allowing you to circumvent region locks. The UK has a few example of people getting convicted for installing mod chips.

In Sonys case where geohotz was threatend with legal action you'll find that was for distro of the jailbreak and use of that device on PSN ... not modding the console itself.

Originally Posted by Varik

There are an abundance of laws that limit what you can do with you own property, with cars being a prime example with many limitation in each country.

I think your slightly confused here, the example you state is in refrence to cars being limited by speed limits. This is not limiting what you do TO your property but how you USE your property. As I said, modding a console or game disk is not illegal, trying to use that disc or console on a service is.

You can install a 4.5ltr engine in a astra if you like. Opel will not persue you for alternig their product, you can drive it about all you want BUT you are only beaking the law if you break the speed limit.

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by hightower1

I woud disagree with you here, when you buy a disk you are buying teh content on that disk... locked or unlocked. Not supplying the end user with a key to unlock the content is simply a countermeasure not a legal restriction. Its the software equivilent of using anti tampering screws to close a devices case. They are not legal safeguards but a deterent to stop one acessnig areas of a purchased product.

This is the third time you've said this on the thread. You are wrong. You do not own the content on the disc.

Originally Posted by hightower1

You seem to think the unreal engine creator is based in the game itself? The unreal engine code on a game disc is not the same code used by developers to build games. That is only licenced to devs and does not go on each and ever disk, if you were to add the same program that devs use to build games to each disc the size would be huge.

And this is probably why you're repeating the above assertion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[EnterNow]

Originally Posted by gizmo

This is the third time you've said this on the thread. You are wrong. You do not own the content on the disc.

[K.O.Kiki]

[hightower1]

Originally Posted by gizmo

This is the third time you've said this on the thread. You are wrong. You do not own the content on the disc.


And this is probably why you're repeating the above assertion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

TBH I am stating my own opinion but can you please site any legal precident where there has been a sucsessful conviction where someone has access content on the disc for "dlc"?

Also, can you exlpain as to what you do own / pay for when buynig a single player only game then? If you dont own a game you pay for i.e the content on the disc are we simply renting the game? If thats also true who does actually own the game and its assosiated content?


BTW, chill out on the tone mate. It doesnt serve your point well , honestly it just makes you seem a bit arrogant.