[snafuk35]

Thomas Andrews, the designer of the Titanic and her sister ships, was born in Comber, Co. Down and was a son of a member of the Privy Council of Ireland. His younger brother was John Miller Andrews who was the second Prime Minister of Northern Ireland between 1940-1943 and later Imperial Grand Master of The Grand Orange Council of the World.

[CDfm]

More Titanic - festival in Liverpool the port she never visited.

Carnival to mark centenary of Titanic sinking slammed as ‘insensitive’ by family of magnate who built ship


By Liz Hull

Last updated at 12:36 AM on 11th February 2012



A £2million carnival to mark the centenary of the Titanic's sinking has been condemned as ‘insensitive’ and in ‘bad taste’ by a relative of the shipping magnate who built the liner.
Council chiefs in Liverpool have organised a three-day ‘sea odyssey’ spectacular to commemorate 100 years since the doomed liner sank next month.
The celebration, paid for with European and Arts Council cash and likely to attract thousands of spectators, will feature 30ft tall puppets parading through the city’s streets.

Wreck: The bow of the RMS Titanic on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, as viewed by a remotely-operated vehicle 10 August

But Clifford Ismay, 56, a direct descendant of J Bruce Ismay, who founded White Star Line, the firm which built the Titanic, said holding a street party was no way to mark a disaster which cost 1,500 lives.
‘There is a line you can cross in making something considered as a fitting tribute,’ Mr Ismay said.
‘With the plans for this "sea odyssey" that line has been crossed with incredibly bad taste.



‘Spectacular and celebration are two words that should not be used in connection with the loss of RMS Titanic.
‘The words remembrance and memorial would be more fitting. There are still a lot of people around who lost relatives aboard the Titanic.
‘I don’t like the idea of commemorating the loss of lives and the sinking of Titanic with a parade. It really is very insensitive.’
The puppets will tell the story of a letter written by May McMurray to her father William, 43, a bedroom steward on the ship.
Mr McMurray, of Kensington, Liverpool, never managed to read the letter, in which his daughter lamented: 'It’s very lonely without you, dear father' as it was sent just two days before the Titanic struck an iceberg on April 15, 1912.

Titanic steams out of Southampton: It sank on April 15th, 1912, off the coast of Newfoundland with the loss of 1,635 passengers and crew

Mr McMurray died trying to rescue passengers and his body has never been found.
Jean-Luc Courcoult, artistic director for French puppeteers Royal de Luxe, said he was inspired to devise the show after reading May’s letter, which is on display at the city’s Maritime Museum.
Mr Ismay, who runs the Titanic Museum in Maryport, Cumbria, added: ‘The theme of this puppet show is a poignant reminder, a personal story, which should be treated with care and respect.
‘Mr McMurray would have met a harrowing death and he is a victim - as is his daughter who grew up without a father.
‘I support most things to do with Titanic so long as it is respectful to those who lost their lives that fateful night.
‘We will have a service to remember those who died and mourn the impact it had on the lives of survivors or relatives of the dead and lay wreaths on the tide at Solway.
‘I think that is the correct way to remember Titanic.’

La Machine: A giant spider walks beside Liverpool's Arena Complex at Wapping Dock as part of the city's European Capital of Culture celebrations

Sea odyssey follows the success of La Machine - a similar street event held when Liverpool was the European Capital of Culture in 2008.
On that occasion a 50ft spider stalked the streets and drew crowds of more than 100,000 to the city.
RMS Titanic set off on its maiden voyage to New York from Southampton, but Liverpool was her registered home port and many crew members, including Ismay and Captain James Smith, were from the city.
Following the tragedy Ismay was nicknamed “J. Brute Ismay” by the US press after it emerged he got away in a lifeboat as Titanic sank.
He spent the two-day journey on the rescue ship Carpathia under sedation with opiates and did not leave his cabin.
After a public backlash, he retreated from public life and died in London in 1937.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1m4jqrF6t

A letter and a family

ed Fri 27 Jan 2012 14:13 The doomed ship Titanic

A letter from a doting daughter which never reached her father, tragically killed on the Titanic, has formed a piece at a Liverpool Museum.

The original letter is displayed for the first time in the museum’s compelling new exhibition Titanic and Liverpool: the untold story opening 30 March 2012 to mark the 100th anniversary of the sinking on 15 April.

May Louise McMurray had sat down in her neat home in Empress Road, Kensington, Liverpool, to pen her first-ever letter.

May was writing to her father William who, like many Liverpudlians, worked away at sea and could be absent for long periods.

“Dear Father,” she wrote in her best handwriting (and a few spelling mistakes).

“It seems ages since I last seen you. I wish we where in Southampton with you it is very lonely without you Dear Father I have not been very well I have had a bad throat hoping I will soon get better for Mana (sic) worries so much little Ernie has not been so well but he as got better now hoping you are keeping well dada so ta love from Ivy and Ernie thank dada for the presents love from all dad hoping to see you soon with love from Ivy and May and Ernie xxxxxxxxxx kisses for dada x Dada `this is my first letter.”

Wiilliam McMurray had been away in Belfast for several weeks before taking up his job as a First Class bedroom steward on the magnificent new White Star liner.

Tragically he never received the moving letter from May, written on 13 April 1912, as it arrived in Southampton after the ship had sailed. Two days later he was one of more than 1,500 passengers and crew who died in the Titanic disaster.

The letter was returned to Liverpool and treasured for many years by the family before being donated to Merseyside Maritime Museum in 1989 by May Louise’s own daughter, William McMurray’s granddaughter.

Inspired by the book Titanic and Liverpool by former Merseyside Maritime Museum curator Dr Alan Scarth (Liverpool University Press and National Museums Liverpool 2009), the exhibition explores the history and myths surrounding the sinking.

The book is available, price £12.95, in all National Museums Liverpool shops and online at www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/onlineshop/

Titanic and Liverpool: the untold story is part of the National Museums Liverpool’s Liverpool and the World exhibition series part-funded by the European Union - the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF).

Birkenhead-born William McMurray, aged 43, lived with his wife and three young children at 60 Empress Road.

Mrs McMurray received the shattering news of her husband’s loss on 17 April – their wedding anniversary. Sympathetic neighbours gave comfort to the distraught family.

Just three years earlier William had won a gallantry medal for helping to rescue 1,700 people from the stricken steamship Republic on 24 January 1909.

Titanic and Liverpool: the untold story takes the visitor on a fascinating journey through many little-known aspects of the disaster – and in particular those linked to Liverpool, the port where she was registered but never visited.


http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/l...xhibition.html

and this is up for auction

Two rare and important Titanic letters will be sold Mar. 1-3 at Philip Weiss Auctions in Oceanside, N.Y.

Leisure, Entertainment, Miscellaneous Press release from: Ken Hall Press Releases

Two-page letter handwritten aboard the HMS Titanic by John Edward Simpson, a doctor on the ship.Store this image in big size

(openPR) - (OCEANSIDE, N.Y.) – Two important letters relating to the doomed ocean liner Titanic, plus three early Titanic Marconigrams (radio telegrams) have been added to an already packed three-day estate sale planned for March 1-3 by Philip Weiss Auctions. The Thursday-through-Saturday auction will be held in the firm’s spacious gallery, located at 1 Neil Court in Oceanside.

The Titanic material will be offered on Friday, March 2, the sandwich day of the event.

The two letters, although written by separate people who rode aboard the Titanic’s ill-fated maiden voyage (one survived while the other perished), are linked in a way because one author refers to the other in his text. The Marconigrams were sent in the hours following the sinking of the Titanic and the resulting mad scramble to reach the area and rescue survivors.



Considered the more valuable of the letters is a two-page missive handwritten on White Star Lines stationery by John Edward Simpson, hired on April 6, 1912 to serve as an assistant surgeon on the Titanic, treating second- and third-class passengers. The letter, dated April 11 (four days before the sinking) and written aboard the Titanic, should bring $40,000-$50,000.

Addressed to Dr. Simpson’s mother, the letter reads, in part, “I am very well and am gradually getting settled in my new cabin, which is larger than my last” (referring to the previous ship he was on, the Olympic). He also writes about the theft of one of his trunks before closing, “With fondest love, John.” The letter is crisp and clean and never before been offered at auction.

Dr. Simpson did not survive the tragedy, unlike the author of the second letter, Charles Herbert Lightoller, a 2nd officer aboard the Titanic. His letter – two pages typed on White Star Lines stationery, with Mr. Lightoller’s bold signature at the end and dated May 1, 1912 – was written aboard another ship, the Adriatic, and carries a pre-sale estimate of $15,000-$20,000.

Remarkably, Mr. Lightoller’s letter goes into a detailed account of Mr. Simpson’s last hours alive: “I may say that I was practically the last man to speak to Dr. Simpson, and on this occasion he was walking along the boat-deck in company with…They were perfectly calm in the knowledge they had done their duty” and displayed “a calm and cool exterior to the passengers.”

He continued, “We exchanged the words, ‘Goodbye, old man.’ This occurred shortly before the end and I am not aware that he was seen by anyone after.” The condolence letter, written to a Mr. R.W. Graham, paints a heroic and dignified portrait of Dr. Simpson, but in the weeks after the accident a distinctly less flattering picture of Charles Lightoller began to emerge.

For starters, he was notably stricter than most officers in observing the general rule of “women and children first,” interpreting it almost to the point of “women and children only.” This led to long and agonizing good-byes on deck, wherein precious minutes were squandered instead of being put to better use loading lifeboats, a duty that fell under his direct command.

Second, Lightoller acted under the misconception that the wooden lifeboats would break in their davits if fully loaded and should therefore be sent away half-empty for a later, fuller loading when the upper decks sank nearer the water. He was also faulted for excessive speed, not having binoculars in the crow’s nest and traveling through an ice field on a night that, while clear and calm, had been the object of warnings by other boats in the area to ‘heave to’ until morning.

In the end, Lightoller was the last survivor loaded into a lifeboat. He went on to have a long career at sea before passing away in 1954. Perhaps ironically, as a result of his testimony at a British Inquiry following the Titanic disaster, many of his recommendations for avoiding such accidents in the future were adopted -- not just by Britain and the U.S. but all maritime nations.

All three of the Marconigrams were sent on April 15, 1912, the date of the sinking, and all three carry pre-sale estimates of $3,000-$5,000. The earliest of the trio, sent at 7:45 a.m. from the ship Olympic, states, “Since midnight, when her position was 41.46 N 50.14W have been unable to communicate. We are now 310 miles from her. Will inform at once if hear anything.”

The second Marconigram, sent just five minutes later, at 7:50 a.m., asks, “Captain Asian Can you give me any information on Titanic and if any ships standing by her Commander.” The third one, sent much later, at 4:40 p.m., states, “Inexpressive sorrow am proceeding straight on voyage Carpathia informs me no hope in searching will send names of survivors as obtainable.”

[IrishEyes19]

[QUOTE=CDfm;76527725]Well its here. The Titanic Centenary.

Memorabilia is on sale again.



Built in Belfast and Cobh was the last port of call.

I remember seeing a list from a town in Mayo where 15 people from the one town who had sold up to go to America were casualties.

Thats a bit different to millionaire Benjamin Guggenheim & his ladyfriend who were also passengers.

I know very little about the Titanic, the movie put me off, and I would be really interested in knowing more but from an Irish angle.[/QUOTE

I dont have this on historical based fact only on word of mouth but the Jack and Rose story was thought to have come from an Irish angle. A young couple in clarinbridge, Co Galway ran away together and boarded the titanic because there families opposed their relationship. Both were assumed dead as neither were ever found. .

my own source for this is a family story who came from the same village. Sad little tale anyway


http://www.titanic-titanic.com/denis_lennon.shtml

[snafuk35]

This site includes very important information about the passengers and crew, biographical details, their ticket numbers, how much they paid for the passage on the ship, the boat they were in when rescued, links to contemporary newspaper accounts and the American and British commissions of inquiry.

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/

[tui0hcg]

Originally Posted by dmcronin

Judging by the awful "Queenstown Centre" and the various failed attempts to cash in on the Titanic connection, I would not be too optimistic.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...nk-254764.html

Some more about what's planned here: http://cobhedition.com/?p=17035

What 'Failed' attempts are you thinking of? Except for the Bar / Restaurant that closed down I dont remember others
A lot of effort by various parties showing some promise now - dont go knocking stuff before you give it a chance

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Nothing, if you ignore the fact that it's little more than a glorified cafe, and that there's virtually nothing original in it (and they threw out a lot of original artefacts during construction - I actually witnessed it), and that the railway museum that was to be a central part of the project is now this ....

Some of my family donated original artefacts so I know for a fact that there are original artefacts at the centre.
As for the overall Queenstown Story Heritage Centre it is highly successful and well worth a visit. Its not only about the Titanic and it has never solely been all about the Titanic as it’s a story about many things including the Lusitania, the Sirius, emigration and general maritime history for the area
It was never going to be a railway museum and that was a spin off project that never got off the ground

Originally Posted by dmcronin

Ah yes, the cop shop that thinks it's a ship

I went into the Queenstown Centre once, was distinctly underwhelmed by the displays, compared to the fine setup of the likes of the Maritime Museum Liverpool, which has a lot of Titanic interest...being it's home port after all. That's what museums in this country should aim for, not a cafe with a heritage centre/tatfest souvenir shop tacked on as an afterthought.

They should have kept the loco that burst through the wall, 'twould have been a bit more interesting

Try the new Titanic Experience in the old White Star Office if you want something that is purely Titanic

[Judgement Day]

Originally Posted by tui0hcg

What 'Failed' attempts are you thinking of? Except for the Bar / Restaurant that closed down I dont remember others
A lot of effort by various parties showing some promise now - dont go knocking stuff before you give it a chance



Some of my family donated original artefacts so I know for a fact that there are original artefacts at the centre.
As for the overall Queenstown Story Heritage Centre it is highly successful and well worth a visit. Its not only about the Titanic and it has never solely been all about the Titanic as it’s a story about many things including the Lusitania, the Sirius, emigration and general maritime history for the area
It was never going to be a railway museum and that was a spin off project that never got off the ground





Try the new Titanic Experience in the old White Star Office if you want something that is purely Titanic

Excuse me, I was involved at the initial stages and I assure you that the railway museum was as described by Bord Failte - 'the Honeypot Project' - and I had the original consultants report but eventually passed it on to the Secretary of CIE as nobody had seen fit to give him one!

One only has to look back at some of the coverage in Phoenix magazine to see what a fiasco the 'Queenstown Project' has been. I may still have some of the articles and if I find them you may be certain they will be posted here.

[tui0hcg]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Excuse me, I was involved at the initial stages and I assure you that the railway museum was as described by Bord Failte - 'the Honeypot Project' - and I had the original consultants report but eventually passed it on to the Secretary of CIE as nobody had seen fit to give him one!

One only has to look back at some of the coverage in Phoenix magazine to see what a fiasco the 'Queenstown Project' has been. I may still have some of the articles and if I find them you may be certain they will be posted here.

Easy tiger..... no need to get so defensive.
I also viewed the original plans and was involved in the public consultation and as I say the railway museum part was a spin off and not part of the main plan for the heritage part of the site. It was like a phase 2 and never got off the ground - maybe CIE needed a bigger involvement but it never took off.
There were many varied options put forward and a railway section was one but it never went anywhere.
The actual Queenstown Story has been very successful over the past few years. It did hit a few bumps along the way but that's the world we live in - business is hard - even in the Heritage Centre business

[Judgement Day]

Easy pussycat - no need to be so deluded.



From the Irish Times and the same drawings featured heavily in the aforementioned report from the consultants. Boards post here:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=65915560

[tui0hcg]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Easy pussycat - no need to be so deluded.

Your obviously more inclined to the train side of things and good reason as they are a great source of interest but again I go back to the point that the train aspect was phase 2 and not the main plan – the main plan was to have an interpretive centre in the main railway building (where it is now) and to have associated cafe/shops etc attached.
The railway shed development was to be an additional part and would have been great but really was a bit over the top and never really gained any major prominence once the plans were finalised and building works started
How many times have we seen major plans been drawn up and artists impressions and in the end the final product is only part of what was in the original plan

It was a sign of the times – people with major plans and ideas but when it came down to it only one aspect was possible and probably viable

It is a good centre that tells many different stories and is a very popular destination for many a local and tourist alike

Anyway – I don’t want to argue on the internet and I don’t really like the tone of your comments towards me so I will get back to the main point of the post

There are many things happening in the Cobh and lower harbour area to commemorate the centenary and many people are making huge efforts to tell the story of the Titanic in Ireland

If you want to see some interesting details and have a good day out then you should visit the
http://www.titanicexperiencecobh.ie/

you will also see many things of interest in the Queenstown Story at the Railway station and a visit to the museum in Scots Church is worth a look too

[cormacocomhrai]

Managing Director of the White Star line, Bruce Ismay, lived near Carraroe, Co. Galway, afterwards. He was nicknamed "brú síos mé" (push me down-as in drown me) locally.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

[SEEMagazine]

I'll be coordinating some events between Cobh and Rijeka (in Croatia) for the anniversary.

The Carpathia was sailing to Fiume, which is now Rijeka, when it detoured to answer the distress call.

[Oldtree]

Not included in the next sale as dated after the Titanic went down!

Thought you buffs would like to see a scan of 2 adverts from the Tuam Herald 1929, White Star and Cunard lines. The ads appear on a cut down newspaper page.

[dmcronin]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Easy pussycat - no need to be so deluded.



From the Irish Times and the same drawings featured heavily in the aforementioned report from the consultants. Boards post here:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=65915560

Hehe, where'd they get the Yankee locos from!!??

Back on topic, can't believe this...taken from Breaking news.ie today. How's this for a dignified commemorative event??



MTV is to return to Belfast with an outdoor concert marking the centenary of the sinking of the Titanic.

Titanic Sounds will feature several artists staged against the backdrop of the city’s new Titanic Belfast tourist attraction on April 13. It is part of the Titanic Festival commemorating the loss of the Belfast-built liner in the North Atlantic.

An MTV spokesman said: “More information on performers and ticketing will be announced in the coming weeks.”

Belfast hosted last year’s MTV European Music Awards in November, with top acts including Lady Gaga, Jessie J and Justin Bieber.

The Titanic Festival is a series of events expected to attract massive tourist interest.

The six-storey Titanic visitors' centre is close to the slipway where the Titanic was launched a century ago. The building could cost £90m (€106m) and is the most expensive tourism project built in the North.

Other events planned on the night of April 14 include a church requiem which will remember the 1,500 lost lives, with haunting music by composer Philip Hammond at St Anne’s Cathedral. There will also be a play celebrating the people of the Harland and Wolff shipyard where the Titanic was built.

Meanwhile, an iPad app has been designed detailing the Titanic’s legacy, following her journey from the docks of Belfast to her sinking. Features include rare archive footage, photographs of the ship’s construction, the sinking timeline and “did you know” facts.

Tim Davies, marketing director at the History Press, which helped produce it, said: “The Titanic app looks fantastic and we’re confident that both enthusiasts and general consumers alike will enjoy it enormously.”

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/m...#ixzz1nnzJTLCj

[dmcronin]

Originally Posted by cormacocomhrai

Managing Director of the White Star line, Bruce Ismay, lived near Carraroe, Co. Galway, afterwards. He was nicknamed "brú síos mé" (push me down-as in drown me) locally.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

There was an interesting radio documentary on Ismay before and after Titanic on Radio 1 (you can still download it on iTunes)
The only thing that spoiled it was that oft-repeated urban legend about 'NO POPE', the reflection of the Titanic's supposed hull number 390904.

[pedroeibar1]

Originally Posted by dmcronin

There was an interesting radio documentary on Ismay before and after Titanic on Radio 1 (you can still download it on iTunes)
The only thing that spoiled it was that oft-repeated urban legend about 'NO POPE', the reflection of the Titanic's supposed hull number 390904.

Ismay's problem was that he survived. From memory the enquiry concluded that had he not jumped into the lifeboat he would have just added another life to the death toll.

I was very peripherally linked to the production of the film ‘Titanic’. The now famous Irish music scene in the third class was an afterthought and happened by accident. In the usual Hollywood fashion not one but several musicians were booked to try out for a small scene. After the filming of that scene they were having a spontaneous jam session, were overheard, ‘that’s exactly what we want’ the scene was rewritten and you now have the result.
For the ‘in the water’ scene a specially constructed tank was built, just 3 feet deep and the insurers insisted on one trained lifesaver for every three extras in the tank.