[gj777]

Hi,
I know what some are thinking already and yes: it's the 'Jedi thing' ...BUT what I wrote on my form is not the point - I was just informed that when the enumerator collected our form back last April, they opened it up, checked that section and actually scribbled out my entry because I wrote Jedi. Apparently he mumbled 'we don't allow that anymore' or something!

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

This is really an academic concern about what the enumerator can do with forms, I'm not concerned with whether one is actually a practising member of whatever faith and so what one 'should' write on the forms. Which is basically related to why I put Jedi on my forms.
If anyone cares about why I do it I can tell them, but that's not my point here.
I'm not trying to defend religious practice or establish Jedi as anything, I'm just shocked that apparently the enumerator knows what religion I am and has the right to correct how I represent myself.
I can understand that the counters might get a bit sick of it, but that's not my problem. To me the Jedi thing is a kind of alternative to a typical vote abstention or vote spoiling, and I should have the right to do that ...right?

Anyone have any insights into this?

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

Edit: according to the census.ie site, yes we're legally obliged to complete the form.

[psychward]

Originally Posted by gj777

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

You may have meant :

May the force be with you

Response: And also with you


Seriously I think the census is legally compulsory. Many people have a problem with this.

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by psychward

You may have meant :

May the force be with you

Response: And also with you

No, the response is now 'and with your spirit' - changes to the liturgy implemented recently. Get with the program or pick a different religion!

[MadsL]

No, the response is now 'and with your spirit' - changes to the liturgy implemented recently. Get with the program or pick a different religion!

They changed the mass to include "May the force be with you"


Oh, wait...

[MrStuffins]

It's Jan 2012.

Maybe he thought you were taking the piss because you were handing in your census form 8 months late!

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by gj777

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

It goes something like this:

They decide on a breakpoint for religion meaning that if something like 99% (the breakpoint) of the population falls into (say) 12 different religions (plus atheists) then they make a decision that everyone who doesn't tick one of those 12 religions and who doesn't tick 'none' is categorised as 'other', you obviously fall into this category.

The alternative is that they would have to deal with 101 different religions which would increase the expense of processing the census returns and it would produce a list of religions as long as your arm with only a handful of people claiming allegiance to each of them. Statistically this data would be worthless as clearly (using your case as an example) very few of them would be bona fide religions in the accepted meaning of the word.

They have to draw the line somewhere and you were below it so I suspect the enumerator changed your religion from 'Jedi' to 'Other'.

Is it a breach of privacy? Hardly, since the forms will be locked away for 100 years.

[oppenheimer1]

Originally Posted by gj777

Hi,
I know what some are thinking already and yes: it's the 'Jedi thing' ...BUT what I wrote on my form is not the point - I was just informed that when the enumerator collected our form back last April, they opened it up, checked that section and actually scribbled out my entry because I wrote Jedi. Apparently he mumbled 'we don't allow that anymore' or something!

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

This is really an academic concern about what the enumerator can do with forms, I'm not concerned with whether one is actually a practising member of whatever faith and so what one 'should' write on the forms. Which is basically related to why I put Jedi on my forms.
If anyone cares about why I do it I can tell them, but that's not my point here.
I'm not trying to defend religious practice or establish Jedi as anything, I'm just shocked that apparently the enumerator knows what religion I am and has the right to correct how I represent myself.
I can understand that the counters might get a bit sick of it, but that's not my problem. To me the Jedi thing is a kind of alternative to a typical vote abstention or vote spoiling, and I should have the right to do that ...right?

Anyone have any insights into this?

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

Edit: according to the census.ie site, yes we're legally obliged to complete the form.

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth. You were taking the piss with the census, which depends on honesty of all participants to make it worthwhile.

If you wanted to abstain why didn't you tick the box "none/no religion"? Would that not have been the honest answer?

[MrStuffins]

Originally Posted by oppenheimer1

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth. You were taking the piss with the census, which depends on honesty of all participants to make it worthwhile.

If you wanted to abstain why didn't you tick the box "none/no religion"? Would that not have been the honest answer?

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

[Kayroo]

How do you know it was the enumerator?

On a sidenote the Census is actually a vital element of any democracy since representation is based on population and proper provision of services and the drafting of social policies are, in a large part, influenced by census data. Acting the bollox and putting "Jedi" down for your religion and then getting all full of righteous indignation when the CSO ignore your bull**** answer is pretty lame.

Cliffs: Fill in the form properly.

[Kayroo]

Originally Posted by MrStuffins

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

Strawman says what?

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by MrStuffins

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

It's about statistics, it is not a judgement on the merits or otherwise of individual religions.

If you don't fall into the top 99% (including atheists) then you are 'other', end of story.

[Victor]

Oh, its it possible that people are winding you up?

Originally Posted by oppenheimer1

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth.

It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

[johnnyskeleton]

Originally Posted by Victor

It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

what about where you don't physically tamper with it but use a Jedi mind trick to make the enumerator do it? I think the OP should be aware that it was not the enumerator who wanted it to be changed, it was the Jedi council.

So, probelms has he with this issue, with them he should take it up.

[MagicSean]

Originally Posted by Victor

Oh, its it possible that people are winding you up?It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

And also an offence to lie on it isn't it?

[28064212]

Originally Posted by MagicSean

And also an offence to lie on it isn't it?

Depends on how you define the terms "religion" and "Jedi" (and "lie" I guess). The Jedi religion can be taken as a declaration of no or other religion, but you're specifically pointing out the inherent flaw in the system.

But the most important part...

Originally Posted by MrStuffins

It's Jan 2012.