[Motavato]

Talkin of Enda, he's like a rabbit caught in the headlights !

[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by gaffer91

Its here. Maybe not the apology you were looking for but its something nonetheless.

http://ec2-46-137-0-54.eu-west-1.com...-in-economy60/

Er no. It doesn't mean he has "no interest in changing FF", it means he made a mistake in this particular instance. You seem unable or unwilling to accept that.

Give me ONE SINGLE REASON why I should give this individual even the slightest benefit of the doubt ?

You believe that he made a mistake. I believe that it's another example of FF's core ethos.

Your opinion does not override mine, and given Martin's involvement in FF to create the crisis and his actions and half-bakes insincere "apologies" that "don't accept that" and his opinion that libellous slanderous individuals who commit perjury are suitable for his front bench, the facts are backing up my opinion, not yours.

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by Liam Byrne

Give me ONE SINGLE REASON why I should give this individual even the slightest benefit of the doubt ?

There is little point anyone trying to provide you with any single reason in this thread considering the fact that when you have been provided with such examples in previous threads you just cast them down no matter what.

I think most people here realize you hate FF and nothing anyone can say will change that so there is little point you pretending anyone here can change your viewpoint.

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by gaffer91

Its here. Maybe not the apology you were looking for but its something nonetheless.

http://ec2-46-137-0-54.eu-west-1.com...-in-economy60/

To be honest an apology is not genuine when you instantly start passing blame onto others.

Originally Posted by gaffer91

Er no. It doesn't mean he has "no interest in changing FF", it means he made a mistake in this particular instance. You seem unable or unwilling to accept that.

He didn't make a mistake. O'Dea was selected intentionally by the party on the basis of his previous vote winning performances.

He was picked not because of his abilities as a politician (especially that previously he was forced to resign due to a lack of confidence in him due to his actions with regard to Nessan Quinlivan (FYI Dan Boyle referred to him as "compromised")). MM and FF decided to resurrect him as they figured he would manage to scrape some votes by those in Limerick City who don't listen to the news.

[Sierra Oscar]

Anyways personally I feel FF will manage a recovery although it will most certainly have to span at least two General Elections. I can imagine that FF will not step into government for the next eight to ten years and by that time the party is likely to have changed significantly both in terms of its membership and its policy platform. There are few in FF who even want to be anywhere near government within the next four years - something which I think shows that the party recognises that a long road to recovery is ahead.

If the Euro crisis is exacerbated over the next twelve months then there may be some softening of attitudes towards FF also with people realising that there is a global dimension to our current woes. All the same FF's economic policies were disastrous during the boom years and the party has a momentous task in regaining the trust of the electorate.

[gaffer91]

Originally Posted by kbannon

To be honest an apology is not genuine when you instantly start passing blame onto others.

I think from a politician that's as good as you could realistically hope for.

Originally Posted by kbannon

He didn't make a mistake. O'Dea was selected intentionally by the party on the basis of his previous vote winning performances.

He was picked not because of his abilities as a politician (especially that previously he was forced to resign due to a lack of confidence in him due to his actions with regard to Nessan Quinlivan (FYI Dan Boyle referred to him as "compromised")). MM and FF decided to resurrect him as they figured he would manage to scrape some votes by those in Limerick City who don't listen to the news.

By "mistake", I mean I think he was wrong to do it (select O'Dea on the front bench prior to the GE). I can see the reasons he did it for but I think it was still the wrong thing to do. I'm not sure what you thought I meant?

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by gaffer91

I think from a politician that's as good as you could realistically hope for.

I don't want to settle on hoping for something. If I was satisfied with settling on something less than what I want, maybe then I would consider voting for FF. (actually I wouldn't!)

Originally Posted by gaffer91

By "mistake", I mean I think he was wrong to do it (select O'Dea on the front bench prior to the GE). I can see the reasons he did it for but I think it was still the wrong thing to do. I'm not sure what you thought I meant?

You said that he made a mistake in selecting O'Dea and that it doesn't indicate that he doesn't want to change FF. I showed that because O'Dea managed to get votes in Limerick, he was called back to help bolster FF in what everyone knew would be a bloodbath.
O'Dea's selection was fully intentional by MM & FF and shows that they haven't changed one iota.

[Mikel91]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

There is little point anyone trying to provide you with any single reason in this thread considering the fact that when you have been provided with such examples in previous threads you just cast them down no matter what.

I think most people here realize you hate FF and nothing anyone can say will change that so there is little point you pretending anyone here can change your viewpoint.

Sierra...You sir are a legend hah hah.

O'Dea's selection was fully intentional by MM & FF and shows that they haven't changed one iota.

Actually Peter Power,who is now head of UNICEF Ireland was FFs main backing for Limerick.The only reason Willie keeps getting his seat is as of localism voting and when ever he's challenged for his FF place within the Grassroot system he usually is meant to bring a large number of floating or rent a mob members.This was due to the voting styles of FF grass roots system which is set to be reformed and changed at the next Ard Fheis.

[Foxhound38]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

Anyways personally I feel FF will manage a recovery although it will most certainly have to span at least two General Elections. I can imagine that FF will not step into government for the next eight to ten years and by that time the party is likely to have changed significantly both in terms of its membership and its policy platform. There are few in FF who even want to be anywhere near government within the next four years - something which I think shows that the party recognises that a long road to recovery is ahead.

If the Euro crisis is exacerbated over the next twelve months then there may be some softening of attitudes towards FF also with people realising that there is a global dimension to our current woes. All the same FF's economic policies were disastrous during the boom years and the party has a momentous task in regaining the trust of the electorate.

Sierra, what does FF actually stand for, aside from populaism and republican rhetoric? Give me one, solid, policy-based or ideological reason why it shouldn't just fold into FG? No FF'er I've ever talked to could give me a satisfactory answer to this. Is there any differences or even stated differences aside from personalities?

[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

There is little point anyone trying to provide you with any single reason in this thread considering the fact that when you have been provided with such examples in previous threads you just cast them down no matter what.

I think most people here realize you hate FF and nothing anyone can say will change that so there is little point you pretending anyone here can change your viewpoint.

I have not been given any indication that FF are changing. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should take an objective look at the party that you choose to belong to.

I hate FF because of what they represent and continue to represent. If they changed then I wouldn't hate them.

But - as I have shown - they have no interest in changing or representing ordinary working people.

[Mikel91]

Sierra, what does FF actually stand for, aside from populaism and republican rhetoric? Give me one, solid, policy-based or ideological reason why it shouldn't just fold into FG? No FF'er I've ever talked to could give me a satisfactory answer to this. Is there any differences or even stated differences aside from personalities?

I have not been given any indication that FF are changing. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should take an objective look at the party that you choose to belong to.

I hate FF because of what they represent and continue to represent. If they changed then I wouldn't hate them.

But - as I have shown - they have no interest in changing or representing ordinary working people.

Lads honestly ye have no idea do ye.I dont mean to insult but my god...You both claim to have political interests but form what I cna tell you know as much as the average joe does.Do a bit more research into the party other than boards/politics.ie threads.

Liam especially you.My god we know you hate FF,We heard it through too the teeth.You constantly make accusations and ignore peoples posts fully.When ever a proper,decent discussion happens about the party,be the thread praising or criticing them..You hijack with several others and turn into one of those people that call Joe Duffy and scream down the phone making things into a non nonsensical rant.Please...just grow up /rant

[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by Mikel91

Liam especially you.My god we know you hate FF,We heard it through too the teeth.You constantly make accusations and ignore peoples posts fully.When ever a proper,decent discussion happens about the party,be the thread praising or criticing them..You hijack with several others and turn into one of those people that call Joe Duffy and scream down the phone making things into a non nonsensical rant.Please...just grow up /rant

Never listen to Joe Duffy and - unlike those who do - I don't read tabloids and don't rant or scream. I think things through and examine all the facts.

Are you an FF member ?

Are you suggesting that we're not entitled to point out that FF refuses to change ?

[Mikel91]

Originally Posted by Liam Byrne

Are you an FF member ?

Are you suggesting that we're not entitled to point out that FF refuses to change ?

Why am I reminded by American McCarthyism.You do know that you dont have to be a member or FF to support or defend them against,well provocations that are far beyond the cause you imply.

You can point it out,but it doesn't meant your right.

Now Liam I'd rather we not take over this thread between us with a flame war and get back to the topic on hand.

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by Mikel91

You do know that you dont have to be a member or FF to support or defend them against,well provocations that are far beyond the cause you imply.

very very few non FF members would nowadays be willing to stand up and defend them in all fairness. Sure, most who voted for them in the last two general elections won't even admit it!

Originally Posted by Mikel91

Now Liam I'd rather we not take over this thread between us with a flame war and get back to the topic on hand.

I agree.
My view again. I loathe FF for what they have done to this country and pray to God that they never secure another seat on a bus never mind within the walls of Dáil Éireann.

[thebman]

Originally Posted by Mikel91

Lads honestly ye have no idea do ye.I dont mean to insult but my god...You both claim to have political interests but form what I cna tell you know as much as the average joe does.Do a bit more research into the party other than boards/politics.ie threads.

Liam especially you.My god we know you hate FF,We heard it through too the teeth.You constantly make accusations and ignore peoples posts fully.When ever a proper,decent discussion happens about the party,be the thread praising or criticing them..You hijack with several others and turn into one of those people that call Joe Duffy and scream down the phone making things into a non nonsensical rant.Please...just grow up /rant

In fairness, FF's "issues" page which is the closest thing they have to a policies page on their current website that I can see and is just a categorised list of the News section from what I can see.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/issues/

Then you have the "constituition of Fianna Fail" which is so vague, you can't tell what they'd actually do to achieve any of things they supposedly stand for.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/content/pages/5097/

So they seem to not want people to know what their real policies are from what I can see.