[trixie_belle12]

Originally Posted by davo10

That doesn't make sense, the only one that is going to be able to explain the difference between the two is a dental professional, if you want to compare prices, compare specialist clinics with specialist clinics and general with general, not specialist with general. Also different types and quality of veneers and crowns cost different prices be it here of in the North or anywhere in the World. My guess is you looked up the websites and spotted the difference in qualifications and types of treatments offered otherwise there should not be an issue with backing up your post.

i'm not saying dentists should charge megaprices for treatments, just that when you post price comparisons that they should be for the same items by the same types of clinicians.

It's not difficult to back up my post and you do make some valid points however I don't find myself wishing to further this conversation as I find your tone quite aggressive to be honest.

[CiaranC]

Originally Posted by davo10

Hmmm, so let me see, a patient from another country walks in to a clinic asks for 4 fillings, a root canal, a crown, scale and polish, offers to pay cash and the dentists knows he/she will not hear from them again. I'm surprised it was only 30% cheaper.

It was 70% cheaper

[davo10]

Originally Posted by CiaranC

It was 70% cheaper

Sorry Ciaran, misread the post, great saving but it would be a long and costly way to go specifically for dental treatment, great holiday though.

[CiaranC]

Originally Posted by davo10

Sorry Ciaran, misread the post, great saving but it would be a long and costly way to go specifically for dental treatment, great holiday though.

Its a 2 hour flight with Ryanair to Nice, cost me 60 quid return.

Why pay extortionate rates to the Irish dentist cartel when you can get a free luxury holiday into the bargain and still save hundreds and hundreds of euro?

[davo10]

Originally Posted by CiaranC

Its a 2 hour flight with Ryanair to Nice, cost me 60 quid return.

Why pay extortionate rates to the Irish dentist cartel when you can get a free luxury holiday into the bargain and still save hundreds and hundreds of euro?

If it was a cartel all prices would be the same yet Trixie posted about the "massive discrepancy in prices". Can you show me two clinics with exactly the same prices (not from the same chain like Smiles obviously) to back up your cartel claim?.

Ciaran how much was the treatment here, how much in France?, was the treatment here expensive and could you have got it cheaper?, was the treatment there very cheap?, did you stay in a hotel?, did you eat?, what will you do if you have problems with the root canal or crown in a couple of years time?, will you get another flight back to have it checked?, will that be €60?

[CiaranC]

Originally Posted by davo10

If it was a cartel all prices would be the same yet Trixie posted about the "massive discrepancy in prices". Can you show me two clinics with exactly the same prices (not from the same chain like Smiles obviously) to back up your cartel claim?.

Ciaran how much was the treatment here, how much in France?, was the treatment here expensive and could you have got it cheaper?, was the treatment there very cheap?, did you stay in a hotel?, did you eat?, what will you do if you have problems with the root canal or crown in a couple of years time?, will you get another flight back to have it checked?, will that be €60?

You sound pretty desperate.

A filling in France costs 19 euro. It costs 70 here. Thats the bottom line. People should not be expected to pay such giant premiums for the 'priviledge' of getting the treatment done in some suburban dentist in Ireland.

Im in a position to take my scheduled dentist visits in France, so I will from now on. And the dentists, like the one my mother works for, will continue to watch their patient levels go through the floor and teeter on the brink of going bust.

[davo10]

Originally Posted by CiaranC

You sound pretty desperate.

A filling in France costs 19 euro. It costs 70 here. Thats the bottom line. People should not be expected to pay such giant premiums for the 'priviledge' of getting the treatment done in some suburban dentist in Ireland.

Im in a position to take my scheduled dentist visits in France, so I will from now on. And the dentists, like the one my mother works for, will continue to watch their patient levels go through the floor and teeter on the brink of going bust.

I'm not desperate at all, they are after all your teeth you're posting about. As I suspected the clinic in France was cheap, €19 for a filling? I have never seen a website offering that price, not even in Hungary or Bulgaria.

This is a pretty good study, it was carried out is 2005 but showed the mean cost of an amalgam filling in France was €45.47 I suspect it has increased since.
http://www.contrangolo.it/documenti/...%20europea.pdf

You can get fillings done very cheaply in the UK but they are subsidized by the NHS and you have to be resident in the UK. Here you used to be able to get fillings free on the med card and I do not think there is any better value than free anywhere in the world. if the clinic your mum works for could make a profit on a €19 filling I am sure they would but in this country and most others that would be impossible so it looks like your mum will unfortunately be joining the ranks of the unemployed shortly, maybe she can get a job in the Riviera but the wage there will be lower lost likely.

Give us the breakdown on the rest of the treatment and the quotation you were given here seen as you have made a big deal of it, also I'd appreciate a look at their website price list you could PM it to me.

Still no evidence on the cartel.

[recedite]

Originally Posted by trixie_belle12

I find your tone quite aggressive to be honest.

Reading "tone" into someone else's internet post is not usually a good idea

[trixie_belle12]

Originally Posted by recedite

Reading "tone" into someone else's internet post is not usually a good idea

Not a good idea for who? I think it's pretty evident in this case actually!

[CiaranC]

Originally Posted by davo10

This is a pretty good study, it was carried out is 2005 but showed the mean cost of an amalgam filling in France was €45.47 I suspect it has increased since.
http://www.contrangolo.it/documenti/...%20europea.pdf

It would seem that the 19 quid I paid was for 'basic tooth decay treatment' not sure what the difference is there.

Your report shows four private independent dentists. A filling from a dentist within the French health insurance system (most of them) costs within a range of fixed prices between 30-60 quid, depending on the tooth/type I guess. You can claim 70% of that back if you qualify for a French medical card (or possibly via an EHIC card if its urgent treatment). You pay the whole lot yourself if not.

A consultation is fixed at 21 euro. A scale is 23. An extraction is 34. (Im pretty sure my root canal was 80 - dont quote me on that one).

Crowns/brodges and the like are not subject to fixed prices.

[davo10]

Originally Posted by CiaranC

It would seem that the 19 quid I paid was for 'basic tooth decay treatment' not sure what the difference is there.

Your report shows four private independent dentists. A filling from a dentist within the French health insurance system (most of them) costs within a range of fixed prices between 30-60 quid, depending on the tooth/type I guess. You can claim 70% of that back if you qualify for a French medical card (or possibly via an EHIC card if its urgent treatment). You pay the whole lot yourself if not.

A consultation is fixed at 21 euro. A scale is 23. An extraction is 34. (Im pretty sure my root canal was 80 - dont quote me on that one).

Crowns/brodges and the like are not subject to fixed prices.

Ah, so in common with the OP and trixie, the comparison you made when you used phrases like "extortionate", "cartel", "bust" etc are not quite as accurate as you led us to believe.


"basic tooth decay treatment" as distinct from a filling (which you quoted as a separate price) refers to either a filling in a basic/primary/deciduous/baby tooth or simple removal of pit and fissure caries in an adult tooth, this is then usually filled with a white resin filling, we call these fissure sealants and they usually cost around €20 per tooth, whether you pay cash or card.

The scheme whereby prices are set by the French Health/Social Ministry is a subsidized scheme similar to what our PRSI and medical schemes were, except you paid less here than in France both for treatment and in employee contributions. If you were qualified under the PRSI scheme, pre December 31st 2009, an examination was FREE, a scaling was FREE, a filling averaged €40 - €60, an extraction was €25. Under the med card scheme it was even better, everything was free except cosmetic treatments and molar root canals. These schemes were effectively withdrawn by the previous Government so if you want to compare prices under a French Health Insurance scheme, compare with the PRSI/Med card schemes.

Also, french dentists receive an additional fee per item from the scheme which "tops up" the amount they get paid from the patient. Like in the UK, many french dentists are opting out of this scheme and in some parts on the country it can be difficult to find a participating dentist.

While the French health system is the envy of many, they also pay a high levi on their income for this.

Lastly, Ciaran, on average a crown here costs between €500 and €800, did you really get yours for €150 - € 240 ?, again even the cheapest clinics in Eastern Europe do not provide treatment as cheap as this. Lastly, I googled 7 private clinics in Nice, none provide treatment at anywhere near the prices you posted above, and after all, dentists in ireland are private clinicians.

[Northern Monkey]

How much do you charge for the above treatments Davo? And how does it compare to the average?

Let's compare apples with apples instead of this if you had a medical card, before December 2009 talk.

How much would a filling cost from a regular dentist in your practice versus one from a dentist in the north?

[davo10]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

How much do you charge for the above treatments Davo? And how does it compare to the average?

Let's compare apples with apples instead of this if you had a medical card, before December 2009 talk.

How much would a filling cost from a regular dentist in your practice versus one from a dentist in the north?

I am delighted to answer this question, we have 4 large signs in our clinic with price comparisons for treatments between our clinic and three other clinics in the North offering specialist and general dental services. I can pm you the three northern clInics if you wish.

Exam €30,
Scale and polish with Hygienist €50, but reduced to €40 if done at same time as exam.
Fillings €40 - €70 for amalgam.
White filling €70 - €90 (back teeth)
Implant assessment €100
Implant including, exam, x-rays, premium implant, zirconium/ titanium abutment and bonded or procera crown €2400.

All three northern clinics where a qualified specialist carries out treatment charge the same or more.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by davo10

I am delighted to answer this question, we have 4 large signs in our clinic with price comparisons for treatments between our clinic and three other clinics in the North offering specialist and general dental services. I can pm you the three northern clInics if you wish.

Exam €30,
Scale and polish with Hygienist €50, but reduced to €40 if done at same time as exam.
Fillings €40 - €70 for amalgam.
White filling €70 - €90 (back teeth)
Implant assessment €100
Implant including, exam, x-rays, premium implant, zirconium/ titanium abutment and bonded or procera crown €2400.

All three northern clinics where a qualified specialist carries out treatment charge the same or more.

I wouldn't have a clue about the price of implants, but to me the rest of those prices seem reasonable enough. Certainly wouldn't be a big enough void to make me go up north.

[fitzgeme]

Just thought I would input here a little, Davo10 has covered most of the issues but I would like to point out that there is also a quality variable in this. For instance somebody mentioned a Bio Horizon implant. This is the cheapest system out there for the dentist to buy and it has surface characteristics and manufacturing tolerances to match its low price. The more expensive implant may be better value for the quality.

As for crowns, I can get a crown from a lab for 40 euro or a better one for 10 times that. It may infact be the cheaper crown that is the rip off as the dentist pockets more of your money. High quality crowns look better and fit better, last longer etc. (BTW a gold crown is cheaper than a ceramic or metal ceramic crown)

Root canals are totally dependant on who does them, a cheap root canal done quickly would be far more likely to fail than a more expensive one that took time and effort to do.

Items of dental work are not directly comparable because at the end of the day its not a item that you are paying for but a service. A specialist periodontist will charge more to threat the OP as the OP's problems are beyond what his regular dentist can do successfully. If the OP wishes to bring his dental problems down to euros and cents then he is not accepting the scale of his problems, and wasting money in NI on treatment that is unlikely to work is the rip off.

Cost and Value are not the same thing.