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21-12-2011, 20:49   #1
Highnoon
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Survival groups?

It seems to be a common thread amongst anything you read about shtf scenarios that you link up with like minded individuals. The idea being that you have a better chance in numbers, deeper talent pool available etc. This doesn't necessarily mean having a retreat to retreat to ala Rawles but could just be friends in your area etc that could provide assistance or back up.

It's not something I've done to be honest. A combination of being a little embarrassed to bring it up and thinking maybe I'm being a little paranoid. I sometimes mention things to work mates to judge their reactions but they usually seem oblivious to things that could go wrong and even when they acknowledge that the euro (for example) is in crisis they seem to shrug their shoulders as if to say 'ah well sure what can we do?'. I get the impression that if I was to 'come out' if you like and tell them about books I've read and message boards like this It's fair to say I'd have a good chance of receiving the questioning frown, raised eye brow 'are you serious?'.

Just wondering if others have the same experience or if they are lucky enough to have people on the same wavelength that see no harm in preparing for whatever even if it's just a little extra food and supplies should another snow storm like last year hit never mind the possible (probable) collapse of the euro and all that may result because of that.
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21-12-2011, 23:19   #2
buckshotbrolan
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[QUOTE=Highnoon;76122290]It seems to be a common thread amongst anything you read about shtf scenarios that you link up with like minded individuals. The idea being that you have a better chance in numbers, deeper talent pool available etc. This doesn't necessarily mean having a retreat to retreat to ala Rawles but could just be friends in your area etc that could provide assistance or back up.

It's not something I've done to be honest. A combination of being a little embarrassed to bring it up and thinking maybe I'm being a little paranoid. I sometimes mention things to work mates to judge their reactions but they usually seem oblivious to things that could go wrong and even when they acknowledge that the euro (for example) is in crisis they seem to shrug their shoulders as if to say 'ah well sure what can we do?'. I get the impression that if I was to 'come out' if you like and tell them about books I've read and message boards like this It's fair to say I'd have a good chance of receiving the questioning frown, raised eye brow 'are you serious?'.

Just wondering if others have the same experience or if they are lucky enough to have people on the same wavelength that see no harm in preparing for whatever even if it's just a little extra food and supplies should another snow storm like last year hit never mind the possible (probable) collapse of the euro and all that may result because of that.

I find it best to keep it on the down low. The more people you let know that you are prepaired for any SHTF secenario, the more people you will find knocking at your door when one does happen.
I also get the,"your taking the pi**" responce when speaking to people about survivalisum and being prepaired. I have only ever found people who are hunters share the same thoughts that I do (and people on this site).
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21-12-2011, 23:26   #3
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I think what highnoon is trying to ask is how do you go about getting a community of like minded preppers to open up communications with each other so that you have a community ready to go in a shtf situation.
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22-12-2011, 01:30   #4
bonniebede
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I was surprised when i mentioned it to someone and they said yes we do that to, and went on to lay out their financial strategy for working towards buying a rural retreat. Unfortunately they are in the uk

THe questions i ask are
1. who would i not be able to leave out, i mean who would i share my food with even if i had to starve? Well i have a list, its small but real, and so i try to think of prepping for them too even if they don't.

2. Who would i want my group to be? Well i would be looking for able likeminded people with hopefully some survival and medical skills, as well as people who know how to grow stuff and work hard.

3. I am seriously thinking of drawing up a list. And approaching them and sounding them out. But i haven't tried it yet, so thats as far as i have got.

Lastly, i don't think it is that likely that we will ever have a 'wake up one morning and the world is gone scenario', if we do, well my survival group will be , obviously, the nearest group of people who have survived.
For most realistic scenarios, there will probably be a period of decline where it becomes clearer that priorities need to be drastically realigned. That might be the time have yor go to group ready to talk to.
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22-12-2011, 01:43   #5
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sorry one other thought.

It seems obvious to me that if you are thinkng of a scenario where a small commuity iof people will need to pull together for the long haul it would be good to consider:

homogeneity - likemindedness. For me that would be primarily on religious grounds, others might have particular philosophies or ways of life they would not be willing to give up.

Common interest - seems like 'hobbies' could be a good breeding ground for building a micro community, like a group of gardeners who already share seeds and help, a group of huinting buddies, etc etc.

age and gender. There will have to be enough fit young people to support older less fit members, who ideally should be able to contribute in other ways, like knowledge , crafts etc.

People should be paired up or in family groups as much as possible, it makes people more stable and think more long term. Obviously a group of ten single lads and one female is a sort of scenario where you are only asking for trouble.

Make provision for children in the group otherwise it will not be viable in the longterm,
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22-12-2011, 02:06   #6
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And that my friends is another huge quandry of the survivalist movement worldwide.Setting up the survivalist community.Sure ,it would be lovely to have a Rawles/countless Hollywood movie scenarios of a community,with a complete compliment of needed personel,trained soilders and exellent defensive personel and a plan to take on all comers and things.
People who I have spoken to in the years over in the US,say they know plenty of fammlies that have set up to survive but none really of any communities.Lets face it we as survivalists are a pretty independant bunch of people on our own .We chafe in many ways with what society imposes on us in laws and "for our own good" type of regulations.
How are we likely to get along then with a "leadership of individuals"??

Just for an example..We are having a job/given up on the idea of designing a survival knife!!What would it be like if we had to decide here on boards to defend a village??
How do you choose a leader of such a community?The person who has put the most money into it,the most skilled military/security guy?
What happens if either of those crack under leadership pressure?Or wont pull their weight or set up their own Preatorian gaurd to enforce their will on the rest of you??

The problem of this is there is no enforcement of one persons individual will to command.If you vote them in democratically,what is there to enforce the mandate?If it is a dictatorship,what is there to keep the people from doing a midnight flit??
Personally,in the late 90s I was involved in setting up a UK/Irish survivalist network.[ALAS BABYLON!!! If that means somthing specific to anyone reading this,PM me.] We had a good selection of skills and people and were in contact by email,and private group chat and had a good inital meet in the UK to move further with plans to store each others gear that if somthing happened we could pitch up at an alt address and have kit pre cached ready to go.We were well expecting Y2k,and by midnight Dec 31st 1999 were well stocked and ready.Nothing happened,and Sept11th 2001 was a very tense night too,expecting some sort of kickoff as well.Guy who was the driving force behind it was an Uk ex military and knew his stuff.It fell apart by the second meeting as one bloke who wanted to be ruler,because he put"the most money into this ".
And that was that as they say.
So if anyone can figure out this intruiging group dynamics complex problem,let me and the worldwide survival community know please!

Broaching the subject..I've found somtimes if you are in a social group setting,and have just watched some sort of disaster movie[Good ol Lads night in with beer and pizza,and you can convince them to watch a film rather than a bunch of people kicking a lump of leather around a field]
Invaribly somone will say somthing about the film[Taking Mad Max 2 Road warrior for example]About the V8 interceptor car,and how cool it would be to drive it in that situation.Throw one back like how did you think he kept it supplied in petrol before things got so bad and what was the point in still running highway patrols in the wasteland??

IOW get people talking about it in a fictious situation.This is one reason,and whoever thought of it was a genius to use the Zombie survival idea to get people thinking about prepping!!! the Z surviv concept is now global from Loop head,Ireland to Fairbanks Alaska.You can discuss anything about survivalism[apart from Ireland]That would put anyones heart aghast if they were in Law enforcement or three letter agency and "survivalists" were talking about it.But because you are killing fictious creatures of the undead it is not taken seriously.
It has even got very serious organisations involved on a humourous level as well.Places like the centre for disease control in Atlanta ,USA.Have issued guidelines in what to do in a Zombie attack..Even the Ohio National Gaurd did a drill of a chemical spill train crash,in which the first responders are transformed into Zombies,as it was around Halloween,and at that time The Pentagon for the Hell of it "war gamed" a Zombie outbreak .
Now,if organisations like this can use this to their advantage in a humourus situation,we should be able to do this as well?

The "I'm stocked up and have a bunker with everything and a minigun" of talking WILL get you raised eyebrows,a lot of derisory comments,and no doubt IF it happens a slew of unwanted visitors wanting to get into your bunker ,supplies or whatever as they wernt arsed doing anything to prep themselves.Or you might be precived as a danger and the law enforcement types clean you out!!And they wont think twice of using violence to get and take it either.
[Shelter skelter syndrome]

Your survival plans should be yours and your closest fammlies busisness ONLY!! Not a bunch of people you met on the internet,or your best mates down in the pub..
Anyone outside that I'd only let in if I had personally seen that they have the same mindset,have made preperations to survive and I've seen it,as they have seen mine.[But not ALL of it of course],and are implicity trustworthy with your life.
Charity will truely begin at home post TSHTF.
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22-12-2011, 02:30   #7
Grizzly 45
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[QUOTE=bonniebede;76127674]sorry one other thought.

It seems obvious to me that if you are thinkng of a scenario where a small commuity iof people will need to pull together for the long haul it would be good to consider:

Quote:
homogeneity - likemindedness. For me that would be primarily on religious grounds, others might have particular philosophies or ways of life they would not be willing to give up.
Proably one way of keeping your survival group together,religion and the glue is "salvation"from whatever..But it can become somthing out of control as well..In that in fact your messiah becomes the be and end all.
Branch Davidians Waco and Jones town Guiana would be two exteemist versions of religious survivalist groups that came to sticky ends.



Quote:
Common interest - seems like 'hobbies' could be a good breeding ground for building a micro community, like a group of gardeners who already share seeds and help, a group of huinting buddies, etc etc.
It does to a certain degree,but then whats the glue to hold it together,and make sure everyone pulls their weight?Its the reason we have various types of leadership and politics in mankinds history,everything from caveman tribalism to democracy.None have really been 100% effective.


Quote:
age and gender. There will have to be enough fit young people to support older less fit members, who ideally should be able to contribute in other ways, like knowledge , crafts etc.
That is an intresting one,but a fallacy in most cases.If you have ever had to deal with older folks,you will know how set they become in their routines,get cranky about the slightest upset,cant or wont eat certain types of foods,need medicines and whatever.Now,stick them in a bunker or retreat in the middle of nowhere for a few months and watch the stress boil over.I'd say Grandad will just take all hs pills at once to save himself that misery!!!
"Granny bashing" happens in the most normal of times.What do you think it will be like in abnormal times??
As for knowledge and crafts.Its funny,but the older you get and I've talked to older folk who did intresting jobs in their youth.That they can remember almost second by second accounts of dealing with customers who were some way memorable.But cant remember one thing about the job or the process that they did for their livlyhood!!Or even on how to improve the process with todays materials!!nice if it happens,but I wont rely totally on it.

Quote:
People should be paired up or in family groups as much as possible, it makes people more stable and think more long term. Obviously a group of ten single lads and one female is a sort of scenario where you are only asking for trouble.
Could it not be ten single girls and one fellah for a change??
Reckon the family that stays together,survives together.


Quote:
Make provision for children in the group otherwise it will not be viable in the longterm
Thats going to be real fun getting a bunch of Xbox playing couch potatoes who have been cossetted all their lives from the nasty outside world to actually have to start doing things to keep themselves and their family alive.
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26-12-2011, 23:07   #8
ShadowFox
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I was thinking of ways to do this also
The cheapest and easyest radios to use at the moment are PMR446s how about we pick a channel and time on these to transmit to see who is reading the likes of this fourm and are interested but dont wish to make themselves known
I know range is an issue but in one way that would be a good thing and people that live closer to each other can get together
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28-12-2011, 00:08   #9
OneGoalNoSoul
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Originally Posted by grapeape View Post
I was thinking of ways to do this also
The cheapest and easyest radios to use at the moment are PMR446s how about we pick a channel and time on these to transmit to see who is reading the likes of this fourm and are interested but dont wish to make themselves known
I know range is an issue but in one way that would be a good thing and people that live closer to each other can get together
I think its an intresting idea. No one else thinks so?
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28-12-2011, 12:26   #10
Grizzly 45
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Concepts good.But then we are all talking in clear,so anyone who wants can listen in who is still reading the posts here and isnt a survivalist and has no intention thereof.Whats the range and cost of these set?Mobile or base station?
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28-12-2011, 16:24   #11
ShadowFox
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Originally Posted by Grizzly 45 View Post
Concepts good.But then we are all talking in clear,so anyone who wants can listen in who is still reading the posts here and isnt a survivalist and has no intention thereof.Whats the range and cost of these set?Mobile or base station?
No matter what comms you use someone will be listening or reading The pmr446s range between €40 and €120++ a set the range goes from 3km to 10km line of sight Ive a set of 10km ones only tried them 3km in a built up area so far and they are fine I just think it would be handy to have a way to keep in touch with like minded people in my area you could always have a number of channels set up so you dont use the same one all the time Its a pity that the frms radios are not allowed here as they can have up to 50 miles line of sight (im still thinking of having a set for when SHTF)
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30-12-2011, 00:57   #12
SasQuatch88
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Hey guys, decided to have a ganders at this thread as it sparked my interest.
I do think about the idea of SHTF scenarios, and the thought always has crossed my mind "what if".
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30-12-2011, 02:24   #13
Grizzly 45
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No matter what comms you use someone will be listening or reading The pmr446s range between €40 and €120++ a set the range goes from 3km to 10km line of sight Ive a set of 10km ones only tried them 3km in a built up area so far and they are fine I just think it would be handy to have a way to keep in touch with like minded people in my area you could always have a number of channels set up so you dont use the same one all the time Its a pity that the frms radios are not allowed here as they can have up to 50 miles line of sight (im still thinking of having a set for when SHTF)
Not a bad price at all.Trouble is; we would have to be within 10 klicks of each other to have a chat for a social evening pre TEOTWAWKI.Post,I dont think we are going to be yakking that much inclear.

FWIW,if we want to set up an "alliance" as I doubt a group /community in the traditional sense is a really feasible concept.I'd suggest maybe a bog normal meet somplace in a hotel for an overnighter to get to meet F2F and simply get to know each other and maybe swop emails and find out where we all are??Maybe if then somthing works out and folks want to stay in contact while it is still possible there is a wonderful free product to ensure no one reads mail or whatever.
Its called Pretty Good Privacy or PGP data encryption programmes.

If talking off boards.ie with whatever byte encryption,it would be safe enough.No doubt some computor nerd will say there is somthing better or its crackable or whatever...Fine...Use whatever is better.I doubt that PTB will be too intrested in cracking a 24/32 bit encryption programme to find our supply of fav surplus shops in Ireland list.Using it from the word go,it doesnt arouse suspicion.
FS Fortune 500 companies use it every day here in Ireland,and they comitt bigger crimes every day than a bunch of people talking about hoarding up some fuel ,beans and ammo!
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30-12-2011, 03:27   #14
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Its called Pretty Good Privacy or PGP data encryption programmes.

If talking off boards.ie with whatever byte encryption,it would be safe enough.No doubt some computor nerd will say there is somthing better or its crackable or whatever...Fine...Use whatever is better.I doubt that PTB will be too intrested in cracking a 24/32 bit encryption programme to find our supply of fav surplus shops in Ireland list.Using it from the word go,it doesnt arouse suspicion.
If you want to maintain anonymity and security splice your communication protocol into someone else's distributed-control botnet of minimal malignancy through a thermite deadman switch anonymous node in some coffin apartment in Hong Kong and disseminate your PGP encrypted messages via steganography in popular pr0n files on the torrent networks, welcome to the darknet. And even that will only keep you going as long as you don't become Persons Of Interest.

For meself I wouldn't bother. I've nothing to hide, let the government come and seize what they like, I have what I need right between my ears. If they want to take that away of course, they'll have themselves a problem. The very fact that you're posting on boards means you're basically pwned one way or the other.

Take comfort however, should TSHTF, the PTB will be far too busy staving off ruin to bother with minnows like us.
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30-12-2011, 03:30   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Ruby View Post
If you want to maintain anonymity and security splice your communication protocol into someone else's distributed-control botnet of minimal malignancy through a thermite deadman switch anonymous node in some coffin apartment in Hong Kong and disseminate your PGP encrypted messages via steganography in popular pr0n files on the torrent networks, welcome to the darknet. And even that will only keep you going as long as you don't become Persons Of Interest.

For meself I wouldn't bother. I've nothing to hide, let the government come and seize what they like, I have what I need right between my ears. If they want to take that away of course, they'll have themselves a problem. The very fact that you're posting on boards means you're basically pwned one way or the other.

Take comfort however, should TSHTF, the PTB will be far too busy staving off ruin to bother with minnows like us.
knowledge is light to carry
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