[Izzy Skint]

anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!

[Izzy Skint]

Originally Posted by plasmaguy

Yeh, lets all stop paying tax, just like the Greeks. That'll show those IMF people. We don't want their money or their help, or else we only want free money from them, no conditions.

This property tax is a condition of the IMF by the way. Bring in a property tax and they release more money to save our sorry asses.

I wish we had a choice in this, but we don't.

The IMF owns Ireland now, where have you been the last 2 years? Our government, democratically elected they may have been, are just IMF puppets. That's the reality of the situation.

And the IMF really don't give a toss what most Irish people think or not. The Property tax is either brought in fully, or they leave and take their money/lifeline with them.

These are simply facts, which really posters on here aren't going to alter.

plasmaguy, you are incorrect mate, the IMF could not give a fiddlers where the irish government raise money from, once they raise it is all that matters to them....this tax is wrong on so many levels, starting at the very top it is wrong to bail out banks/bankers/bondholders etc., then as you work your way down it is wrong to tax people who have paid stamp duty, people who are paying mortgages to banks (banks which we all own!)...right down to the level where we argue over who gets what local services and all this bickering just clouds the real injustice of what the Irish gov. are doing to their own people...it is wrong on every level!....one other point, the more money you pump into something in this crap country the more inefficient and useless it becomes...think about it..

[Stinicker]

Originally Posted by Izzy Skint

anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!

I'll enjoy watching them squirm when they see the €100 double, quadruple and quintiple to €2,000 a year over the next few years. Which is what is going to happen. I'm not paying it myself and if they try to use the ESB or other utilities against me I will just cut them off.

I live in a rural area 6 miles from the nearest regional road, I have no services at all and am totally self sufficent, bar the ESB.

There is no rubbish collection locally and I don't protest about it and I take my rubbish to the waste station once a month and recycle most of it for free and bin the rest into bags which go to landfill.

My water comes from a mountain stream clean, chemical free and unpolluted unlike the councils muck they supply.

The rural road resembles the surface of the moon, and I pay a thousand or two in Motor tax and fuel, vat etc.

There is no local guard or barracks, I rely on the shotgun and my own isolation for protection.

I get nothing from the Government and won't be paying the tax until I see around 50% of the public sector made redundant and the other 50% get 50% pay cuts.

Laissez faire living for the win!

[Izzy Skint]

Originally Posted by plasmaguy

So you are not going to pay the tax then? Fine with me.

Don't come crying on here when they put all those fines and penalties on you.

My guess is eventually people like you will pay.

But I hope they fine the bejaysus out of you, just to teach you a lesson.

Facts which people like you need reminding are:

1. Practically every country in Europe, well normal country that isn't bankrupt, have property taxes. It's an accepted norm in every normal country (except the wild west that is Ireland).

2. Without the stamp duty revenues, we have a massive shortfall in day to day taxes.

3. Pay less tax, and the governent need to borrow more, even economic illiterates should be able to get that.

4. The property tax was one of the conditions of the IMF bailout. It's not really up for negotiation. They give us money up front and we pay it back longterm. We don't do the property tax right and refuse to pay it, they will refuse to give us the money we need for day to day spending.

plasmaguy....before the boom years the gov. could manage our borrowing / outgoings...no major problems....then madness for 10 years.... spending went into overdrive....we are now 15 - 20 billion euro overspending every year due to the fall in stamp duty etc.....but wait...any tax reductions we received in the good years have been more than clawed back by the gov, take a look at any workers pay slip from 2/3 years ago and compare it to one now....so why are we still overspending so much, where did all that extra spending go over the years...health, social welfare, public pay + pensions..thats where...we all know these are crippling us, especially the latter two, these must be cut SEVERELY, the gov. know it too but have not got the guts to upset unions or hit the "most vulnerable"...most vulnerable my @rse, I am working and can barely survive on my pay....totally sick of this sh!t country....so I am not paying

[Stinicker]

Originally Posted by Izzy Skint

plasmaguy....before the boom years the gov. could manage our borrowing / outgoings...no major problems....then madness for 10 years.... spending went into overdrive....we are now 15 - 20 billion euro overspending every year due to the fall in stamp duty etc.....but wait...any tax reductions we received in the good years have been more than clawed back by the gov, take a look at any workers pay slip from 2/3 years ago and compare it to one now....so why are we still overspending so much, where did all that extra spending go over the years...health, social welfare, public pay + pensions..thats where...we all know these are crippling us, especially the latter two, these must be cut SEVERELY, the gov. know it too but have not got the guts to upset unions or hit the "most vulnerable"...most vulnerable my @rse, I am working and can barely survive on my pay....totally sick of this sh!t country....so I am not paying

Agreed, if we had a proper Government they would just simply say sorry EU and IMF we cannot repay and won't repay, threatening to bring down the EU/Euro ponzi pyramid scheme would quickly get debt writeoffs and we have no choice but to default on the loans and let the market correct itself.

Ireland is on life support but is brain dead, we must pull the plug and reboot the country, a new currency without the debt or liabilitys of the past is needed. Ireland, Greece, Spain and Italy should not be sacrificial pawns to keep the inflated pyramid Euro alive, the Euro has to be killed off and the whole concept of the EU abolished, trading partners is fine but when it becomes like United States and a central dictator in Berlin and Brussels telling us we can't sh1t down the toilet then you know the time has come to collapse the German's imperial plan.

Yes it will cause short-term economic hardship, but this is what happened in Iceland and they are now in a far better position than us and are adopting the Canadian dollar as their new Currency soon. People here are Myopic in the extreme and we need to plan ahead for a future for our people and right now there is no future for the vast amount of Ireland's youth, Suicide in skyrocketing and depression is common all because of what Fianna Fail did to the country. We must plan ahead and do what is best for Ireland and not for for the bank accounts of Private billionaire bondholders and FF cronie capitalists.

[dvpower]

Originally Posted by celticcrash

No need to be sorry, you didn't burst my bubble.
He said a few more paid by credit card and internet.
Please dont tell me that its gone up to
2%

Did you even read the article? Limerick CoCo have no information about how many people paid online.

You are living in a dreamland if you think that nationally the payment figures are 12% but somehow in Limerick that figure is 2%.

[Frank Black]

Originally Posted by Stinicker

Agreed, if we had a proper Government they would just simply say sorry EU and IMF we cannot repay and won't repay, threatening to bring down the EU/Euro ponzi pyramid scheme would quickly get debt writeoffs and we have no choice but to default on the loans and let the market correct itself.


Yes it will cause short-term economic hardship, but this is what happened in Iceland and they are now in a far better position than us and are adopting the Canadian dollar as their new Currency soon. People here are Myopic in the extreme and we need to plan ahead for a future for our people and right now there is no future for the vast amount of Ireland's youth, Suicide in skyrocketing and depression is common all because of what Fianna Fail did to the country. We must plan ahead and do what is best for Ireland and not for for the bank accounts of Private billionaire bondholders and FF cronie capitalists.

Talk about master of understatement.

Imagine having to close an 18billion euro deficit overnight - please expand on what you think would actually happen in this scenario.

Perhaps you could outline the impacts of the drastic cuts which would be required to social welfare, pension payments, public section pay, funding for health and education. Do you perhaps foresee a scenario where huge sections of society would go on strike - given the amount of bellyaching going on in this thread over a €100 charge, what do you think would be the reaction of society to the economic apocalypse your have proposed?

Given you've come on here and proposed this as an alternative to a property tax, it's incumbant on people like you to to actually explain the effects of adopting your proposal.

Iceland btw is completely ****ed and likely to get worse - it's not some magical nirvana.

[zerks]

I eventually met someone who paid it,they couldn't give me a rational explanation as to why they did it.I left them feeling fairly sheepish when I gave them the stats for the amount of non paying households.

The only argument I got was, "what if we want to sell the house?" Get real it's value has dropped by nearly 60% since it was bought,they won't be going anywhere.

Wait 'til this €100 creeps up & up,will they gleefully hand over the cash then?

[dvpower]

Originally Posted by zerks

I eventually met someone who paid it,they couldn't give me a rational explanation as to why they did it.

What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?

[zerks]

Originally Posted by dvpower

What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?

I asked why they paid it and the response was "ah,ehm,but sure we have to".They didn't even seem to know much about the charge & just blindly went along and paid it.

Where they live isn't even finished and has many empty properties but isn't exempt.It seems they regret paying it now but anyhow dvpower,it's another one for your short list of those who paid.

[golfwallah]

Originally Posted by dvpower

What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?

I'm no fan of household charges but the decision to pay eventually boils down to whether you believe in democracy or not.

I know that flat rate household charges were opposed by Fine Gael in their election manifesto.

That being said, the Government have a clear mandate to clean up the financial mess - from all of us.

The issue of household charges was debated at length in the Dail, in the context of the financial mess the country is in, before the enabling legislation for Household Charges was passed.

As far as I know, the charge is temporary until even more penal taxes are brought in, next year - so look forward to even bigger charges to come.

The rational explanation for taxes is that you have to pay your way in life and that includes repaying your debts (even if the debts were raised recklessly and we now don't like them).

Certainly, the people responsible for the reckless borrowing (whether private, government or public officials) should be brought to account, but that is a separate matter.

[naoise80]

Originally Posted by Izzy Skint

anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!

Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

Happily paid up about three weeks ago.

[mconigol]

Originally Posted by naoise80

Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

Happily paid up about three weeks ago.

Get'em!

[Ghandee]

Originally Posted by naoise80

Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

Happily paid up about three weeks ago.

good girl.

[naoise80]

Originally Posted by Ghandee

good girl.

Very sexist post.