[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by tayto lover

Just as a matter of interest, how would we have fared if we hadn't agreed to pay the unguaranteed bondholders and decided to let Anglo go to the wall ?

No idea,.what's your point?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by gerryo777

The Croke park agreement is a sham, more pandering to the unions.
The government run the country, not Jack O'Conner and his cronies.

The agreement with the IMF did mention a property tax, it never set the rate.

We're €18 billion in a hole mostly because of massive unemployment (SW bill), We need people back at work and paying taxes, by screwing everyone for every last cent they have the unemployment rate will not fall due to the flatlining of the domestic economy.

You've just told us what you think we should do. The question was why do you think they didn't do that?

[gerryo777]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

You've just told us what you think we should do. The question was why do you think they didn't do that?

Lack of a spine? or an inability to think 'outside the box'?

[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

No idea,.what's your point?

Maybe our political representatives just made the wrong choices and are continuing on the wrong path. If so they have to be stopped. They are not bringing their electorate with them. Now they are selling off what few state assets we have left and the vultures will soon be picking on our bones.
We have to make a stand.

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by gerryo777

Lack of a spine? or an inability to think 'outside the box'?

What do you mean by lack of a spine? There's massive opposition to this charge; seems like a pretty brave move to me so you must think that your alternative would cause even more unrest

Do you not think that the solution that causes the least civil unrest is the best one for a government to pursue?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by tayto lover

Maybe our political representatives just made the wrong choices and are continuing on the wrong path. If so they have to be stopped. They are not bringing their electorate with them. Now they are selling off what few state assets we have left and the vultures will soon be picking on our bones.
We have to make a stand.

Well they weren't the ones who made these choices, they're just dealing with the consequences. Saying "wrong path" suggests that there is a better path that they're ignoring for some reason. So going back to my original question, what do you think that reason is?

[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

Well they weren't the ones who made these choices, they're just dealing with the consequences. Saying "wrong path" suggests that there is a better path that they're ignoring for some reason. So going back to my original question, what do you think that reason is?

The reason is the bad choices and promises made by F.F. BUT F.G. were elected on promises like "not another cent", "no hospital closures" and "we will re-negotiate the I.M.F. loans". Then when they got in they did the opposite to what they promised. Had they the guts we were lead to believe they had things might have been done differently. Is it any wonder people do not trust them now and are refusing to pay the likes of the Household Tax. They could have tried to re-negotiate the terms and length of the loans at least and maybe get it spread out to affordable levels.

[Phill Ewinn]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

Well they weren't the ones who made these choices, they're just dealing with the consequences. Saying "wrong path" suggests that there is a better path that they're ignoring for some reason. So going back to my original question, what do you think that reason is?

Dealing with the consequences badly obviously. So then, fill me in. What's the reason?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by tayto lover

The reason is the bad choices and promises made by F.F. BUT F.G. were elected on promises like "not another cent", "no hospital closures" and "we will re-negotiate the I.M.F. loans". Then when they got in they did the opposite to what they promised. Had they the guts we were lead to believe they had things might have been done differently. Is it any wonder people do not trust them now and are refusing to pay the likes of the Household Tax. They could have tried to re-negotiate the terms and length of the loans at least and maybe get it spread out to affordable levels.

You're not really answering my question. Why do you think they didn't do these things? You don't know they didn't try to renegotiate the loans and in fact the terms have got better since they came in (although but necessarily because of something they did)

But assuming they didn't even try, why wouldn't they? If they could have made our situation massively better with a few meetings why would they just not bother doing it?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Phill Ewinn

Dealing with the consequences badly obviously. So then, fill me in. What's the reason?

Imo it's because there is no practical alternative. It's the only explanation that doesn't require me to believe that Fine Gael and Labour are the most unfathomably lazy, evil and stupid people to ever walk the earth

[gerryo777]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

You're not really answering my question. Why do you think they didn't do these things? You don't know they didn't try to renegotiate the loans and in fact the terms have got better since they came in (although but necessarily because of something they did)

But assuming they didn't even try, why wouldn't they? If they could have made our situation massively better with a few meetings why would they just not bother doing it?

Do you want to put a few ideas forward yourself there Sam Vines or is every post you make going to be a series of questions?

[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

You're not really answering my question. Why do you think they didn't do these things? You don't know they didn't try to renegotiate the loans and in fact the terms have got better since they came in (although but necessarily because of something they did)

But assuming they didn't even try, why wouldn't they? If they could have made our situation massively better with a few meetings why would they just not bother doing it?

Didn't Enda say in the Dail that they didn't ask for longer to pay ?
He said we could make the payments, the good little boy he is.

[Phill Ewinn]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

Imo it's because there is no practical alternative. It's the only explanation that doesn't require me to believe that Fine Gael and Labour are the most unfathomably lazy, evil and stupid people to ever walk the earth

Oh dear. Well that's it then, we're screwed! Lay down and die people it's all over.

If your trying to ignore everyone else on the planet that have a different view to you you're doing a fantastic job.

FYI there are alternatives. We're not paying top dollar for the government to ''try''. If they can't do the job they must stand aside.

[gerryo777]

Originally Posted by Phill Ewinn

Oh dear. Well that's it then, we're screwed! Lay down and die people it's all over.

If your trying to ignore everyone else on the planet that have a different view to you you're doing a fantastic job.

FYI there are alternatives. We're not paying top dollar for the government to ''try''. If they can't do the job they must stand aside.

Sam Vines sounds a lot like another poster on here. Maybe they're related.
What do you reckon tayto?

[Kippure]

This is from a reader in The metro Herald. I,d like to know if there is any truth to this statement of Law.



Could any of the legal eagles who
read the Metro Herald let me know if
the details in the e-mail I received
below are true?

‘You won’t get a household charge
bill because the charge is a statute.
People need to understand this: A
statute is a “legislated rule of society
given the force of law by the consent of
the governed”. (Black’s Law Dictionary
4th edition). Who are those it governs?
Us, the public.
‘This household charge is a statute,
otherwise known as an Act of
Government, and it only carries the
force of law upon you if you consent to
it – which means you are legally
obliged to pay it if you register for it on
householdcharge.ie.

‘Your silence and inaction gives you
a stance of no consent. If you do not
consent, a statute cannot affect you.
‘If you register for this ‘charge’
however, you are consenting to this
statute, i.e. you are signing the contract

‘This is why the Government is
ASKING people to register for the
household charge, rather than just
billing each household.’ Sharkman


K.