[Bishop_Donal]

Originally Posted by zerks

He wants it to be €1000 instead of €100 now,not sure Bishop Donal is trolling or delusional.

I am not trolling. I simply believe that this country needs to start making progress. We have an Eur18bn gap and the vast majority of people just don't seem to have a vision as to what might happen in this country if that isn't closed.

If there is this much hassle over a Eur100 charge that yields Eur160m, I would far prefer to have seen a much much larger charge introduced so that at least the debate might relate to something that's actually meaningful.

It's just my point of view, I'm sorry if it doesn't suit you.

[UsernameInUse]

The only people that have no problems paying this are the people that just don't understand economics. If you tax the people more, they have less to spend in the economy. What the government should be doing is putting the money back into the pockets of the people to spend.

This tax even defies the ridiculousness of Keynesianism which dictates that government spend, spend, spend. The reason it contradicts this is because Kenny and Co are taking your money away to give to the gamblers in the banking industry. This is the definition of corporatism, as Capitalism dictates that what you earn, you keep - and what you lose, you lose. Enjoy your serfdom. The feudal system hasn't gone away you know...

[galwayrush]

Originally Posted by Bishop_Donal

I am not trolling. I simply believe that this country needs to start making progress. We have an Eur18bn gap and the vast majority of people just don't seem to have a vision as to what might happen in this country if that isn't closed.

If there is this much hassle over a Eur100 charge that yields Eur160m, I would far prefer to have seen a much much larger charge introduced so that at least the debate might relate to something that's actually meaningful.

It's just my point of view, I'm sorry if it doesn't suit you.

I do agree we need to sort out our deficit, but the Government should stop the waste as a first step.

[Hijpo]

Originally Posted by Bishop_Donal

I am not trolling. I simply believe that this country needs to start making progress. We have an Eur18bn gap and the vast majority of people just don't seem to have a vision as to what might happen in this country if that isn't closed.

If there is this much hassle over a Eur100 charge that yields Eur160m, I would far prefer to have seen a much much larger charge introduced so that at least the debate might relate to something that's actually meaningful.

It's just my point of view, I'm sorry if it doesn't suit you.

Aslong as people are willing to give and give the government will never change its expenditure. Its the easy wasy out. They only way they will change is by forcing them to act, just like they are trying to force people into paying the household tax. I would like to see cuts to needless spending, BIG cuts, increased taxation being the very last option. After that, i would be willing to pay the household charge because then i would be happy that its a necessary charge.

[Slick50]

Originally Posted by Bishop_Donal

Because if you keep increasing taxes on the higher earners (who have already taken a hammering over the past few years), they will take their entire income, wealth, jobs and entrepreneurship out of this country. Then you are really looking at a third world situation.

We all have/are taking a hammering. But tax those better able to afford it more, and they'll leave. Do you think there will be no one left that would gladly fill their positions. It is expensive to uproot an entire enterprise and move, not to mention re establishing themselves in a new location.

But it's not a problem that so many "plebs" have to emigrate.

Originally Posted by Bishop_Donal

This has been explained so many times, and yet the message doesn't seem to get through. They are not staying in Ireland for the weather, there needs to be some incentive - making marginal rates much higher here than in competitor countries really won't help at all.

What competing countries? Are these the ones you've been citing as justification for taxing peoples homes. They won't make money, or live tax free there either.

[Bishop_Donal]

Originally Posted by galwayrush

I do agree we need to sort out our deficit, but the Government should stop the waste as a first step.

and I agree that the elimination of waste should also be a joint first step!!
along with
1.) a broad based property (actually preferably broad based wealth) tax,
2.) broad based decrease in tax credits and IT bands,
3.) meaningful reductions in all public service salaries (and double the normal rate for politicians)
4.) meaningful reductions in Welfare support (probably 20%) and ideally time limits on certain supports.

BTW, to appease you, I would be in favour of the introduction of the same supports for self employed people who have a business that fails as for any employee.

[UsernameInUse]

Originally Posted by Bishop_Donal

I am not trolling. I simply believe that this country needs to start making progress. We have an Eur18bn gap and the vast majority of people just don't seem to have a vision as to what might happen in this country if that isn't closed.

If there is this much hassle over a Eur100 charge that yields Eur160m, I would far prefer to have seen a much much larger charge introduced so that at least the debate might relate to something that's actually meaningful.

It's just my point of view, I'm sorry if it doesn't suit you.

The government need to cut to slash the deficit, not tax. And by "deficit", I mean the money borrowed to run government services over the years, not bankers which Capitalism dictates.

Taxing is contributing to the problem. Look at the 750+ quangos we have in this country. Lobbyists, during the Ahern years lined up on Kildare Street for a bit of the action - any old issue was seen to by throwing money at it.

"Water is unsafe" - no problem, set up a new quango called IWS.
"But what about the hedgehogs down the rabbit holes in Roscommon? We should count how many frogs we have in Loch Derg" - no problem, here's five million a year. It's total madness.

1. Cut the deficit by abolishing hundreds of quangos and the one's we need right now (can be phased out over time) or merged with others.
2. Privatise RTE - These crooks are given tax money as well as being allowed to advertise giving them a handy little war chest they can use to purchase licenses to broadcast football matches (we can see all these games on BBC for free btw), pay millions to air programmes already obtainable on SKY or give our under-performing, over paid hosts like the leech Pay Kenny, Joe Duffy or Finuchane a raise on top of their €400,000 a year.
3. Deregulation - allow the people of Ireland to set up alternatives to the government services already in place.

All this can be accomplished without taxing the people and further destroying our economy. We must abolish the income tax too.

[Bishop_Donal]

Originally Posted by Slick50

We all have/are taking a hammering. But tax those better able to afford it more, and they'll leave. Do you think there will be no one left that would gladly fill their positions. It is expensive to uproot an entire enterprise and move, not to mention re establishing themselves in a new location.

But it's not a problem that so many "plebs" have to emigrate.



What competing countries? Are these the ones you've been citing as justification for taxing peoples homes. They won't make money, or live tax free there either.

Higher income earners have taken a far greater increase in taxation than lower income earners over the past four years. That is fact.

Higher income earners in Ireland are now far more closely aligned with average european tax rates than lower income earners. If you further increase their rates, the temptation to move their centre of business increases. Moving an enterprise in many cases is easy now - the bigger earners are often intellectual assets at this stage.

The competing countries are all of those with a lower marginal rate of tax (and if we keep increasing it the way some people would like, there will be quite a few of them soon). So yes, they won't live there tax free, but they will pay less tax (and probably enjoy warmer summers and colder winters - how good is that!!!)

[The Quadratic Equation]

Originally Posted by Mickey Dazzler

Just paid the bastarding thing!!

No.

You see, some of us have principles and self respect, and an aversion to funding the lifestyles of the corrupt and famous.

And we don't like lies, liars and their parasite cronies.

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

[jack presley]

If they're not going to write to every house telling us we owe a €100, when they come looking to take you to court could you play dumb and say you don't listen to Irish radio/watch Irish TV or read irish newspapers and didn't know anything about it?

[Frank Black]

Originally Posted by jack presley

If they're not going to write to every house telling us we owe a €100, when they come looking to take you to court could you play dumb and say you don't listen to Irish radio/watch Irish TV or read irish newspapers and didn't know anything about it?

Yep, and if you kill someone, you can just say you didn't realise murder was a crime.

[lividduck]

Originally Posted by jack presley

If they're not going to write to every house telling us we owe a €100, when they come looking to take you to court could you play dumb and say you don't listen to Irish radio/watch Irish TV or read irish newspapers and didn't know anything about it?

Trouble is they will say ignorance is no defence in law.
I am paying because 100 quids aint worth the hassle
now if that 100 was to turn into a grand well thats a different question.

[Flex]

Originally Posted by The Quadratic Equation

No.

You see, some of us have principles and self respect, and an aversion to funding the lifestyles of the corrupt and famous.

And we don't like lies, liars and their parasite cronies.

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

So are you also going to stop paying PAYE and VAT since there's no way of telling where its being spent?

[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by black francis

Yep, and if you kill someone, you can just say you didn't realise murder was a crime.

Och sure an odd auld politician wouldn't be missed.
What about Enda being used by the other E.U. leaders as the tea-break entertainment ? The knob.

[The Quadratic Equation]

Originally Posted by lividduck

Trouble is they will say ignorance is no defence in law.
I am paying because 100 quids aint worth the hassle
now if that 100 was to turn into a grand well thats a different question.

Actually you'll find it's much easier for anyone with principles and integrity to make a stand against, and refuse to pay €100 and the late payment penalties, than it is against €1,000 plus the penalties, and it will be €1,000 soon. If most people would at least hold off untill March 2013, like Thatcher's Poll tax, this tax would fail.