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12-12-2011, 05:07   #1
Slideshowbob
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The Dail no longer has power‏

It has struck me over the last week that tha Dail is now as relevant as the Seanad was 5 years ago.

I listened to Lucinda Creighton trying to explain things poorly as she eh'd and ah'd about us pauping in Europe and she tried to assimilate the unchartered predicament Europe is now in.

We now need about 30% of the TDs we have. They will be reps for us in Europe, the rest of those needed can fulfill ministerial positions.

TDs with their hard got Arts degrees bleat about things they have feck all influence over now put there on pothole and medical card mandates.

Ta na politict nua ag teacht.....

Last edited by Boards.ie: Neil; 12-12-2011 at 09:13.
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12-12-2011, 05:20   #2
daithimacgroin
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the country needs to demand a referendum on radical constitutional change
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12-12-2011, 05:21   #3
Slideshowbob
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What in the constitution needs to change do you think?
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12-12-2011, 06:09   #4
daithimacgroin
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pretty much all of it

We've ran this country into the ground for the last 90 years
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12-12-2011, 07:29   #5
femur61
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Parish pump politics needs to be erradicated. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the constitution, but it seems to be outdated and the stumbling block for a lot decisions for us. 1937 is a long way from 2011.
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12-12-2011, 08:03   #6
Dr Galen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daithimacgroin View Post
pretty much all of it

We've ran this country into the ground for the last 90 years
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Originally Posted by femur61 View Post
Parish pump politics needs to be erradicated. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the constitution, but it seems to be outdated and the stumbling block for a lot decisions for us. 1937 is a long way from 2011.
I dont totally disagree that some sort of constitutional review needs to take place, but how can anyone suggest that the whole thing needs to be rewritten within making any reference to specifics? I'd also be interested to know what you think holds us back as a nation or what parts are outdated?

Last edited by Dr Galen; 12-12-2011 at 10:34. Reason: Bloody iOS
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12-12-2011, 10:43   #7
daithimacgroin
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well, the OP meant this to be about the Dail,
and i do think there is no need for a Dail at all.

as for constitutional reform, i'd like to see a move towards direct democracy,

Teletext Democracy is what I call it.

No representatives. The decisions and votes that would usually be put to the dail or executive should be put directly to the people.

We've had the technology for years, and education levels are high enough

so why keep using this antiquated imperfect corrupt form of indirect democracy?

It's not like the people in the Dail are anymore knowledgeable or wise than the ordinary man in the street.
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12-12-2011, 10:52   #8
bmaxi
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FFS, we can't even get the Government to live up to it's commitment to abolish Quangoes. Good luck with getting them to get rid of their buddies in the Dáil.
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12-12-2011, 10:56   #9
daithimacgroin
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if more people got behind these guys then?

http://www.2nd-republic.ie/
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12-12-2011, 12:12   #10
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For me, there is too much power concentrated in the Cabinet/Executive and the 140 or so TDs that are not part of that inner circle are totally sidelined because of the whip system.

As far as I know there's no mention in the consitution of the whip system and I would like to see legislation along the lines of what the technical group proposed earlier in the year.

FG are far too right-wing to support this type of reform though.

http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/from-t...n-dail-reform/
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12-12-2011, 12:58   #11
Manach
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The issue is how we change our own Bunreacht.
The US constitution is a lot older than ours. It has fewer changes and is much more revered by their public society. Instead of carefully crafting relevant legislation to met current events, the State uses a quick fix of altering the constitution which robs it of its coherent whole philosophy and it dissolves into a patchwork of various dos/don'ts - leaving case law derived from it in shreds.
The next change to make to the constitution should be making it more difficult to change and reduce the power of politicians to do so.
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12-12-2011, 15:48   #12
bedrock#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daithimacgroin View Post
well, the OP meant this to be about the Dail,
and i do think there is no need for a Dail at all.

as for constitutional reform, i'd like to see a move towards direct democracy,

Teletext Democracy is what I call it.

No representatives. The decisions and votes that would usually be put to the dail or executive should be put directly to the people.

We've had the technology for years, and education levels are high enough

so why keep using this antiquated imperfect corrupt form of indirect democracy?

It's not like the people in the Dail are anymore knowledgeable or wise than the ordinary man in the street.
I think a form of democracy where the public are involved in the decision making process is what we should strive for, however it is a lot more complex than what you are suggesting. Direct democracy is a nice idea but it doesn't tackle the very different views people hold and the fact that a lot of collective decision making descends into bickering.

If we are to have a truly citizen oriented democracy the first thing we need to do is to comprehensively reform the education system. One of the main problems I see with transitioning to this type of democracy is that-

A) We collectively lack the required knowledge of the political system (electoral systems, institutional design etc.) -

B) We lack the skills to be able to make deliberation possible

C) Our current political system is too centralized to make collective decision making efficient and effective

D) This would require constitutional overhaul in terms of who is allowed make legislation, the powers of the dail, the electoral system, the fact that our constitution sets out the rules of a representative democracy etc.

It is a massive undertaking to change or democracy. Personally I would favour a deliberative form of democracy with direct democracy coming in the form of referendum voting procedures for any decisions made.
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12-12-2011, 20:14   #13
Corvus Maximus
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Personally I view the Dáil as being populated by a large majority of gormless, inept, intellectually impaired morons. So regardless of the sovereignty issue and how much power they actually have. They’re not capable of doing much with it anyway.
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12-12-2011, 20:15   #14
GSF
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the country needs to demand a referendum on radical constitutional change
Its on its way in March - well maybe, when the lawyers get back from their Christmas break.
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12-12-2011, 20:39   #15
Pete_Cavan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daithimacgroin View Post
well, the OP meant this to be about the Dail,
and i do think there is no need for a Dail at all.

as for constitutional reform, i'd like to see a move towards direct democracy,

Teletext Democracy is what I call it.

No representatives. The decisions and votes that would usually be put to the dail or executive should be put directly to the people.
Right, and who produces the legislation to be put to the people? Does any loud mouth with a vested interest get to bring legislation before the people? Most people do not have the time to educate themselves on all the various issues which would be put in front of them and pretty soon the number of people participating plummet as they get sick of being asked to vote on issue the do not concern them.
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