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17-01-2012, 17:29   #781
AlekSmart
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Originally Posted by the groutch View Post
We all knew that was coming anyway, I'd say we'll see a €22 travel 90 (or possible elimination), and a €125 or €130 30 day rambler if the cash fare increases are anything to go by
From what I can determine,there may be a bit of ...erm..."athmosphere" between the NTA and DB over the T90 pricing issue.

Currently the T90 offers seriously good value for c.75% of dailycash-paying bus users.

If a pasenger is a Bus-Only customer at the €1.90,€2.15 and €2.65 fares then the T90 at €19 represents serious value,which can be extended further if the Transferability option is used.

Used in this manner,it knocks LeapCard into a cocked-hat in terms of value.

However,I suspect that the penny has dropped in the NTA that Bus Only users have plumped substantially for the T90 over the less viable LeapCard,and this has led to a stall in sales,only curtailed by T90's selling-out in some locations.

Therefore I would suspect that some arm-twisting,sorry...intensive negotiation has been in progress which,I think,will see the T90 go to €24 and made available on LeapCard only.

The notion here is to ensure that Public Transport users do not recieve too much leeway in terms of non-cash discount,a principle which the NTA have outlined in respect of the Luas fare increase.

The very thought that Public Transport fares should be kept at the lowest possible rate is regarded as heretical by many of these regulatory types,who will continue to add more and more complexity to our existing wheelbarrow full....
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17-01-2012, 17:53   #782
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Newstalk Public Transport Forum This Morning

Dublin Bus PR girl on Newstalk said that DB have "applied" to the NTA for a 5% increase in the price of the T90.

Im sure the NTA will resist this as in the past !
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17-01-2012, 18:03   #783
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Originally Posted by Centrocampista View Post
Dublin Bus PR girl on Newstalk said that DB have "applied" to the NTA for a 5% increase in the price of the T90.

Im sure the NTA will resist this as in the past !
Interesting,verrry interesting.....when one considers that initially Dublin Bus applied for a 30% increase in cash-fares and was granted a 15% figure....

A 5% increase on a T90 would bring it to €19.95,leaving it still ahead of the LeapCard fares in terms of attraction.

It's all quite odd really....
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17-01-2012, 18:07   #784
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Originally Posted by Centrocampista View Post
Dublin Bus PR girl on Newstalk said that DB have "applied" to the NTA for a 5% increase in the price of the T90.

Im sure the NTA will resist this as in the past !
That would make the 10 ticket card cost only €19.45? not much of an increase and still excellent value.
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17-01-2012, 18:11   #785
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I have four Travel 90s stocked up.
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17-01-2012, 18:13   #786
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I'd say the Travel 90 will be €20. Perhaps they'll use this opportunity to reduce the automatic validator to €2. Oh, and increase cash fares to €2...
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17-01-2012, 18:16   #787
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If the Travel 90 does only go up to €20 and becomes loadable onto Leap then it could become very quickly the defacto choice for everyone above the stage 1-3 fare. It could in theory knockdown a big chunk of driver interaction. Seems pointless then that they would continue to operate the upper and outer suburban fares.
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17-01-2012, 18:24   #788
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Originally Posted by AlekSmart View Post
If a pasenger is a Bus-Only customer at the €1.90,€2.15 and €2.65 fares then the T90 at €19 represents serious value,which can be extended further if the Transferability option is used.
Even at €19 the T90 doesn't make sense for the €1.90 ("medium zone") user as the equivalent LEAP card fare is €1.70, unless of course you are transferring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekSmart View Post
Used in this manner,it knocks LeapCard into a cocked-hat in terms of value.
For the long zone (€2.15/€1.95) and above then yes it does.


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Originally Posted by AlekSmart View Post
Therefore I would suspect that some arm-twisting,sorry...intensive negotiation has been in progress which,I think,will see the T90 go to €24 and made available on LeapCard only.
It makes perfect sense to make it Leap Card only. That way you can have both the e-purse and T90 on the same card. The passenger can then either decide to use the T90 by using the right hand validator or the e-purse for cheaper fares at the driver. and of course also use it on LUAS and DART.

If T90 goes Leap only, then there is really no reason for the NTA to fear it and force it to be more expensive then it needs to be. In fact it makes the Leap card even more attractive.

If the Dublin Bus PR girl is right, then a 5% increase in the T90 will make it €19.95 or almost €2 per fare.

If the NTA could keep it at €19.50, it would make it €1.95 per fare and it would be the prefect replacement for the long zone and above fare (€2.15/€1.95).

In fact then the only question would be why even bother to have the T90 as a pre-paid card. At €1.95 it should just be made the standard fare when using the right hand validator.

So it seems not only can they not get a single fare right for Dublin Bus, but they can't get the tag-on maximum fare right when thy are so close to it.

Standing back and looking at this I can clearly see in-fighting between the NTA and Dublin Bus. We are seeing this mismatch because it looks like the LEAP card folks are forced to have a matching LEAP fare for each cash fare and tag-only being the maximum cash fare. While DB have control over pre-paid tickets and set them at more attractive prices.

It really makes no sense for them not to agree to set the T90 at €1.95 and make it the maximum fare for LEAP card the T90 without the need to pre-purchase.

This would go a long way to eliminating probably 50% of the problem of people needing to talk to the drivers for their fare and the resulting long dwell times. Instead they just tag-on.

You are then only left with the problem of short and medium zone passengers. Which could be gradually increased over time until you eventually end up with a flat fare.

It would be a good first step towards flat fares.

If they don't do this, then it is clear that either the NTA or DB or both are totally inept and have no interest in creating an improved bus service for all.

Last edited by bk; 17-01-2012 at 18:27.
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17-01-2012, 18:31   #789
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Make 1.95 the standard fare on the right hand validator and allow you to transfer for 90 minutes automatically, deducted from the epurse, no need to load t90's at all then.
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17-01-2012, 20:59   #790
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If they don't do this, then it is clear that either the NTA or DB or both are totally inept and have no interest in creating an improved bus service for all.
All of bk's excellent post would have been rendered unnecessary if the relevant bodies had begun the ITS project from the most logical starting point,12 years ago.......Agree,Rationalize and Integrate the various fare structures FIRST,all else would have followed through from that.....
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18-01-2012, 14:27   #791
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Can someone tell me since when did the last ticket machine update on Dublin Bus take place

In particular when was the function to charge cash fares on a leap card added. The reason being as yesterday a driver was only able to charge me the equivalent cash fare on my leap card rather than the discounted leap fare.

It's all the more sinister since there is no valid leap fare of any type for the amount that I was charged by the system. It has all the hallmarks of the pre new year overcharging all over again.

I've emailed leap customer care but I'm curious to know why Dublin Bus need to upload such a fare onto their ticket machine if it does not exist?
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18-01-2012, 15:11   #792
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Fare deduction error

Apologies if this has already been answered (it's a big thread) but has anybody else had their card balance deducted wrongly? Basically I had a balance or 9.90 and paid a fare of 1.70 and according to the online system my balance is 8.19.

You couldn't make it up.
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18-01-2012, 15:23   #793
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Originally Posted by xalot View Post
Apologies if this has already been answered (it's a big thread) but has anybody else had their card balance deducted wrongly? Basically I had a balance or 9.90 and paid a fare of 1.70 and according to the online system my balance is 8.19.

You couldn't make it up.
Yeah its been answered a few pages back, there seems to be a problemwith rounding numbers on the computer system, leaving balances out by 1c.
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18-01-2012, 15:54   #794
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That fare deduction error seems to sort itself after a few transactions when it gets 'de-rounded'.
For some reason the last couple of times I've tagged off in the evenings it hasn't registered in my account history but the display on the validator seems to be correct and future transactions in my account history seem to arrive at the correct balance despite this missing entry. No biggy, but I feel like I need to keep an eye on it just in case.
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18-01-2012, 17:17   #795
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Originally Posted by AlekSmart View Post
The very thought that Public Transport fares should be kept at the lowest possible rate is regarded as heretical by many of these regulatory types,who will continue to add more and more complexity to our existing wheelbarrow full....
I'm not sure if that is quite fair / accurate. The NTA have made clear than increasing fares for basic services can hit those that can least afford it hard.

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Originally Posted by bk View Post
Standing back and looking at this I can clearly see in-fighting between the NTA and Dublin Bus. We are seeing this mismatch because it looks like the LEAP card folks are forced to have a matching LEAP fare for each cash fare and tag-only being the maximum cash fare. While DB have control over pre-paid tickets and set them at more attractive prices.
that they are **asking** for an increase suggests that the NTA have power over them on this.

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Can someone tell me since when did the last ticket machine update on Dublin Bus take place
It is hard to say. The first Leap buses were rolled out months ago and no doubt various software tweaks are added from time to time.

Last edited by Victor; 18-01-2012 at 17:34.
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