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Hulk Hands · 02-03-2012, 13:11

All this talk of the owners not caring about the horse if they go for the Gold Cup is crap. They will be going a similar pace in the RSA as they would in the GC. The horse has already proven he jumps brilliantly off a fast pace as shown by kempton. If anything, he's safer in the GC where he's in beside experienced jumpers rather than the RSA where jumping mistakes all sides could knock his confidence, or he could be brought down which is nearly more dangerous than a fall. The only small argument people might have is that he's going over 2 furlongs further. But the horse isn't a baby. He ran for 3 miles last year at a quicker pace than he'd experience in the Gold Cup and has shown no ill effects. You could easily make the opposite argument, that if the connections cared about him they'd run him in the GC rather than the RSA. The RSA has ruined a hell of a lot more horses

mdwexford · 02-03-2012, 15:56

If Kauto doesnt turn up (and I pray to god he will or it will put a huge dampener on the festival) I would take the chance with Grands Crus and usually Im totally against novices running in championship races but this really is the worst Gold Cup I have seen.

Bar Long Run the rest of the field are pigs, (Burton Port will bounce)

premierstone · 02-03-2012, 16:33

Lookin on BF it looks as if Sir Des Champs is RSA bound

Slattsy · 02-03-2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by premierstone

Lookin on BF it looks as if Sir Des Champs is RSA bound

Really?? Strange, id have thought First Lieutenant was nailed on for that. What price is SDC trading at?

Sammo13 · 02-03-2012, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdwexford

If Kauto doesnt turn up (and I pray to god he will or it will put a huge dampener on the festival) I would take the chance with Grands Crus and usually Im totally against novices running in championship races but this really is the worst Gold Cup I have seen.

Bar Long Run the rest of the field are pigs, (Burton Port will bounce)

Question I posed was SS 5/4 or LR 6/4 and for me SS is a better bet. His form is better, looks to be the best novice since Moscow in 02, his opposition are outstanding hurdlers but chasers not so. Al Ferof for me is the pick bar the fav. Blackstairs needs flat track hit a wall last year. Arkle on paper looks top class, let see how they fair over fences. Overrated opposition...
Gold cup is a poor race, but often bar last 5 yrs the GC lacks depth. Not sold on LR, fancy him to get turned over.

premierstone · 02-03-2012, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slattsy

Really?? Strange, id have thought First Lieutenant was nailed on for that. What price is SDC trading at?

Why so strange? It was always the intention to run Last Instalment in this untill he got injured so Gigginstown are not adverse to running two of theirs against each other, I got on @ 25's when Last Instalment withdrew, trading at 9/1 now.

mdwexford · 02-03-2012, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammo13

Question I posed was SS 5/4 or LR 6/4 and for me SS is a better bet. His form is better, looks to be the best novice since Moscow in 02, his opposition are outstanding hurdlers but chasers not so. Al Ferof for me is the pick bar the fav. Blackstairs needs flat track hit a wall last year. Arkle on paper looks top class, let see how they fair over fences. Overrated opposition...
Gold cup is a poor race, but often bar last 5 yrs the GC lacks depth. Not sold on LR, fancy him to get turned over.

SS opposition are all unexposed though and can improve for the fast pace, better ground etc, four past festival winners against him as well.

LR literally has nothing to beat as far as I can see.

Sammo13 · 02-03-2012, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by premierstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slattsy

Really?? Strange, id have thought First Lieutenant was nailed on for that. What price is SDC trading at?

Why so strange? It was always the intention to run Last Instalment in this untill he got injured so Gigginstown are not adverse to running two of theirs against each other, I got on @ 25's when Last Instalment withdrew, trading at 9/1 now.

9/1 for jewson now, 11/1 best price for RSA.. 9.5 on betfair.. could this be grand crus potentially going to GC.

Goldcupfav · 02-03-2012, 17:13

Surely Quel Esprit is the value at 16/1 if Kauto doesnt run. Seems to have got his jumping together over fences this term. Has had 3 chase starts over 3 miles plus. RSA last year still going well when fell. Unlucky at Punchestown last year when hampered by the loose horse and came down. And the Hennessy this year which he won easy enough. Trip shouldnt be a problem in the GC as he's by the same sire as Quinto De La Roque and he looks an out and out stayer. Ruby will surely be in the saddle if Kauto doesnt run. Will surely go off shorter than 16's if Ruby gets the leg up. Id rather be on Quel Esprit at 16's then Burton Port at 7's (Could bounce, May not be good enough anyway).

klairondavis · 02-03-2012, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldcupfav

Surely Quel Esprit is the value at 16/1 if Kauto doesnt run. Seems to have got his jumping together over fences this term. Has had 3 chase starts over 3 miles plus. RSA last year still going well when fell. Unlucky at Punchestown last year when hampered by the loose horse and came down. And the Hennessy this year which he won easy enough. Trip shouldnt be a problem in the GC as he's by the same sire as Quinto De La Roque and he looks an out and out stayer. Ruby will surely be in the saddle if Kauto doesnt run. Will surely go off shorter than 16's if Ruby gets the leg up. Id rather be on Quel Esprit at 16's then Burton Port at 7's (Could bounce, May not be good enough anyway).

Mullins has always thought the world of Quel Esprit. He was tanking along when he went at the third last in the RSA and he's unbeaten on his completed starts over fences. Looks like he has got his jumping together and the extra 2f will be no bother too him. 16/1 is a fine e/w bet with Ruby now likely to ride.

kiers47 · 02-03-2012, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldcupfav

Surely Quel Esprit is the value at 16/1.

Suggested this horse at 50's a couple of months ago. Hope some people got on. Looks a live contender for some prize money at least.

Huntley · 02-03-2012, 20:09

I don't think Quel Esprit is good enough in the slightest. A 2l beating of Roberto Goldback is his best form to date which doesn't say much.

I don't even know where they are going to position the horse, if he tries to bowl along he will be going a yard quicker than he wants and if he is held up he won't have enough about him to make a challenge. He would exceed expectations if he were to place.

Sammo13 · 02-03-2012, 23:49

I like Quel, but the form of irish hennessy is poor, 2nd rated 155. Think Quel will make it and finish 5th or 6th, decent horse but can't see him winning.

Just pray Kauto makes it and we have a classic GC in 2 weeks, fingers crossed..

**UrbanSea** · 02-03-2012, 23:52

What a Friend in the betting w/o Kauto and LR is a great price at 16/1

Sammo13 · 02-03-2012, 23:57

Wouldn't put you off that bet Urban, WAF ran ok last time, worry is his head carriage, doesn't battle, but is the type to ran on into a place when others are tired and cried enough..

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02-03-2012, 13:11	#961
Hulk Hands Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,479 Adverts \| Friends	All this talk of the owners not caring about the horse if they go for the Gold Cup is crap. They will be going a similar pace in the RSA as they would in the GC. The horse has already proven he jumps brilliantly off a fast pace as shown by kempton. If anything, he's safer in the GC where he's in beside experienced jumpers rather than the RSA where jumping mistakes all sides could knock his confidence, or he could be brought down which is nearly more dangerous than a fall. The only small argument people might have is that he's going over 2 furlongs further. But the horse isn't a baby. He ran for 3 miles last year at a quicker pace than he'd experience in the Gold Cup and has shown no ill effects. You could easily make the opposite argument, that if the connections cared about him they'd run him in the GC rather than the RSA. The RSA has ruined a hell of a lot more horses

02-03-2012, 15:56	#962
mdwexford Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Waiting For Cheltenham 2014 Posts: 6,855 Adverts \| Friends	If Kauto doesnt turn up (and I pray to god he will or it will put a huge dampener on the festival) I would take the chance with Grands Crus and usually Im totally against novices running in championship races but this really is the worst Gold Cup I have seen. Bar Long Run the rest of the field are pigs, (Burton Port will bounce)

02-03-2012, 16:33	#963
premierstone Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: the home of hurling Posts: 5,970 Adverts \| Friends	Lookin on BF it looks as if Sir Des Champs is RSA bound

02-03-2012, 17:13	#969
Goldcupfav Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dublin Posts: 979 Adverts \| Friends	Surely Quel Esprit is the value at 16/1 if Kauto doesnt run. Seems to have got his jumping together over fences this term. Has had 3 chase starts over 3 miles plus. RSA last year still going well when fell. Unlucky at Punchestown last year when hampered by the loose horse and came down. And the Hennessy this year which he won easy enough. Trip shouldnt be a problem in the GC as he's by the same sire as Quinto De La Roque and he looks an out and out stayer. Ruby will surely be in the saddle if Kauto doesnt run. Will surely go off shorter than 16's if Ruby gets the leg up. Id rather be on Quel Esprit at 16's then Burton Port at 7's (Could bounce, May not be good enough anyway).

02-03-2012, 20:09	#972
Huntley Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 520 Adverts \| Friends	I don't think Quel Esprit is good enough in the slightest. A 2l beating of Roberto Goldback is his best form to date which doesn't say much. I don't even know where they are going to position the horse, if he tries to bowl along he will be going a yard quicker than he wants and if he is held up he won't have enough about him to make a challenge. He would exceed expectations if he were to place.

02-03-2012, 23:49	#973
Sammo13 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 156 Adverts \| Friends	I like Quel, but the form of irish hennessy is poor, 2nd rated 155. Think Quel will make it and finish 5th or 6th, decent horse but can't see him winning. Just pray Kauto makes it and we have a classic GC in 2 weeks, fingers crossed..

02-03-2012, 23:52	#974
UrbanSea Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sligo Posts: 14,930 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Horse Racing, Sligo	What a Friend in the betting w/o Kauto and LR is a great price at 16/1

02-03-2012, 23:57	#975
Sammo13 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 156 Adverts \| Friends	Wouldn't put you off that bet Urban, WAF ran ok last time, worry is his head carriage, doesn't battle, but is the type to ran on into a place when others are tired and cried enough..