[DoctorMedicine]

Originally Posted by Patchy~

He's not wrong. It's a memory test if you make it one, but personally I don't remember learning things off for English, Irish, Maths or French - rather I learned the storylines (which isn't exactly intensive rote-learning), for maths I tried to understand concepts, and even with proofs I understood them moreso than rote-learned. Constructions are 25/600 marks, hardly a memory test, and French is learning but it's definitely not testing you on your memory when you go into the exam. I learned the Irish and French languages, I didn't memorise them. If it's "just a memory test" then why does everyone make such a big deal of it? It's more than that. Even in history you form your own opinions and critically analyse the document on the day and in business's applied section you apply what you've learned. You can't hope for a certain document or applied business question, or a certain word in Irish and French, and while you can hope for a poet you have to thoroughly understand their work to do well in English - you have to think on your feet.

I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything but it really puts down all the hard work people do for the exams when people make comments like that. I, personally, see it as more than a memory test, but maybe some don't.

Great post! You are right. You can not and will not succeed in achieving an A in the L.C. without proficiency in that subject. Pugzilla can say what she/he wants-quite simply, she/he is wholly wrong. I also think that the fact Nogivingup is supporting her/him speaks volumes for the point being made.

[QueenOfLeon]

Originally Posted by nogivingup

Hard work gets you points, hard work makes good doctors- what's wrong with increasing the points requirement?

Why is it so important to you that the points requirements go up? Medicine isn't decided by the LC results alone. If someone reaches the ~730 necessary by whatever combination of LC/HPAT, well then they're in. Why are you so bothered by that?

To be honest they could get rid of the points cut off altogether. Last year for example, no one would have gotten in with a Leaving Cert under 500 (highest HPAT was 238).

[Pugzilla]

Originally Posted by DoctorMedicine

Great post! You are right. You can not and will not succeed in achieving an A in the L.C. without proficiency in that subject. Pugzilla can say what she/he wants-quite simply, she/he is wholly wrong. I also think that the fact Nogivingup is supporting her/him speaks volumes for the point being made.

Of course you need proficiency to get an A. When did I ever say you didn't need it? It's achieved mostly through memorisation not because you're smart. The reason it takes so long to study for the LC is because of all of the rote learning you must do.

MEMORY, not intelligence, is king in LC land.

I also think that Nogivingup is an arrogant and idiotic pr*ck. His support is not welcomed nor needed.

[SpirantSpem]

Originally Posted by Pugzilla

Of course you need proficiency to get an A. When did I ever say you didn't need it? It's achieved mostly through memorisation not because you're smart. The reason it takes so long to study for the LC is because of all of the rote learning you must do.

MEMORY, not intelligence, is king in LC land.

I also think that Nogivingup is an arrogant and idiotic pr*ck. His support is not welcomed nor needed.

I disagree. I have terrible memory yet managed to attain 5 A1s & 2 A2s in my Leaving Cert. My grades were down to hard work, determination & above all an understanding of the subject. I could barely remember a quote in English (I think I quoted one sentence in each of my essays) yet managed to get an A2 because I understood the texts. The sciences, maths, accounting, applied maths - they're all about understanding. Languages are all about understanding. Some people just make the Leaving Cert a memory game for themselves.

[nogivingup]

Originally Posted by DoctorMedicine

Great post! You are right. You can not and will not succeed in achieving an A in the L.C. without proficiency in that subject. Pugzilla can say what she/he wants-quite simply, she/he is wholly wrong. I also think that the fact Nogivingup is supporting her/him speaks volumes for the point being made.

When you get into Medicine first attempt then we'll acknowledge your opinion.

[finality]

Originally Posted by Pugzilla

Of course you need proficiency to get an A. When did I ever say you didn't need it? It's achieved mostly through memorisation not because you're smart. The reason it takes so long to study for the LC is because of all of the rote learning you must do.

MEMORY, not intelligence, is king in LC land.

I also think that Nogivingup is an arrogant and idiotic pr*ck. His support is not welcomed nor needed.

But you do need a certain degree of natural intelligence to do well in the LC. There are people who work extremely hard and don't do exceptionally well. The ability to memorize large amounts of information is related to intelligence.

Maybe it rewards hard work more than natural intelligence, but that's arguably a good thing. And if a person is very intelligent it's possible to get very high points in the LC without putting in a huge amount of work.

It also depends on subject choices. You can make your leaving cert about memorizing, or you can make it about intelligence. What's wrong with being able to do well as a result of hard work anyway? Hard work is necessary in any college course. It could be argued that that makes the leaving cert quite suitable for its purpose.

[Darksider]

Originally Posted by nogivingup

When you get into Medicine first attempt then we'll acknowledge your opinion.

Who is 'we'? There's nobody on your side mate! Again you can't even defend your point and resort to insults. Don't you see the irony in that? lmao

[nogivingup]

Originally Posted by Darksider

Who is 'we'? There's nobody on your side mate! Again you can't even defend your point and resort to insults. Don't you see the irony in that? lmao

Royal plural.

[Mad Shark]

Originally Posted by Pugzilla

Of course you need proficiency to get an A. When did I ever say you didn't need it? It's achieved mostly through memorisation not because you're smart. The reason it takes so long to study for the LC is because of all of the rote learning you must do.

MEMORY, not intelligence, is king in LC land.

I also think that Nogivingup is an arrogant and idiotic pr*ck. His support is not welcomed nor needed.

Be careful or you will get the yellow card from 'randylonghorn' !!

[nogivingup]

Originally Posted by Mad Shark

Be careful or you will get the yellow card from 'randylonghorn' !!

Ya, personally I found his/her post to be very offensive. I can't work out how I offended him/her?

[Mad Shark]

Originally Posted by nogivingup

Ya, personally I found his/her post to be very offensive. I can't work out how I offended him/her?

You deserve to be red carded no bother for your arrogance alone - disagreed with most things you said but the more i read your comments and the responses i really think you are winding everyone up for the crack - so i suggest any more crap from you that others just ignore you... then it wont be much fun for you anymore.... ha...

[Dicksboro_man]

every time i click on this thread im secretly hoping people could stop writing pointless arguments and rubbish and just enjoyed the last couple of days before results...

[nogivingup]

Originally Posted by Dicksboro_man

every time i click on this thread im secretly hoping people could stop writing pointless arguments and rubbish and just enjoyed the last couple of days before results...

You're enjoying the last few days before results by going on boards?

[Togepi]

I want to post my opinion on the points system and whether or not getting a fantastic Leaving Cert would make you a good doctor, but I really don't want to get into this argument...

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle secondary school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

[Canard]

Originally Posted by Pugzilla

You said it yourself, the Leaving Cert is hard work and I don't deny that. It takes months to build up the knowledge base for it, BUT there's little that's conceptually difficult in it. If you had text book knowledge in most subjects and average intelligence, you would inevitably do well in it. That's all that's required, HARD WORK. I know many high pointers (I am one) and many aren't particularly intellectual or cerebral, some are downright everday Joes.

Again I respectfully disagree - my English style of writing improved greatly in 6th year and that's not down to memory, it's technique. You can't even learn anything for English Paper 1. Hard work won't do anything if you're determined to do applied maths but don't have the intelligence, for example.

Originally Posted by nogivingup

FINALLY! Someone speaking logically! Hard work gets you points, hard work makes good doctors- what's wrong with increasing the points requirement?

Um, YOU are the one raving on about the need for intelligence and a million other characteristics - that poster is saying you can essentially be "normal" (are you horrified yet?) and get in on memorising.

Originally Posted by Pugzilla

Of course you need proficiency to get an A. When did I ever say you didn't need it? It's achieved mostly through memorisation not because you're smart. The reason it takes so long to study for the LC is because of all of the rote learning you must do.

MEMORY, not intelligence, is king in LC land.

Well, memory and intelligence are pretty interlinked I find. I didn't get good at French by memorising, I got good at it by practice and by using my memory yes, but memory is the basis for everything - you'll never get proficient at maths with short-term memory loss, for example. I didn't even get good at English by reading, it comes naturally, and that's something I'm rather proud of and I don't put it down to memorisation.