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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭deisebhoy17


    thesultan wrote: »
    Bulterstown hammered. Stradbally lost by a point

    Was at the Butlerstown game. First of all I have to say what an awful setup Carriganore is for a championship game. No scoreboard and no one on a speaker calling out subs/additional time etc. Like a challege match you actually wouldnt have a clue whats going on half the time. The huge travelling support must have been less than impressed considering they outnumbered local support by at least 5 to 1.
    As it turns out no scoreboard needed as it was an embarrasingly one-sided game even more so than the scoreline suggests.
    Really highlighted the difference in standard in both counties. Lets not forget that Butlerstown pretty much cake-walked the county final whereas Kildorrery needed a replay to win theirs by a point. The Cork side will take beating in fairness and while Butlerstown are a young side they depended heavily on frees from Jim Power for scores.
    One more thing, right behind one of the goals is the big sports complex. It is really hard to make out the goalposts from a distance due to the white colour of the building and poles/flag masts ect in the background. Both teams hit a rake of wides into this goal I think its no coincidence.
    Pretty bad conditions aswell thats no ones fault but lets just say I left Carriganore feeling pretty disatisfied with value for my tenner!


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 deisedub


    Hogan stand mentioning the possibility of dropping minor grade to u.17
    http://www.hoganstand.com/Tipperary/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=181079


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭Treble20


    The standard of junior hurling must be very poor in Waterford? I expected Kildorrey to win but for them to put up 4-19 on a horrendous day like this is very impressive but doesn't say much for the opposition!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    A bit of an unfair hatchet job on Carriganore there, Deisebhoy. I think the pitch was in fantastic condition for hurling considering the time of year and the conditions if it was played in Walsh or Fraher it would have been relative to playing in a swamp. There was a good travelling support but i thought the venue fitted the occasion fine. Scoreboards,PA announcements etc while they are a help the crowd is close enough to the pitch to see most of whats happening themselves anyway.

    The gulf in class was evident between the sides and Kildorrery were definitely more up for it too, in terms of a physical battle. Butlerstown gave away too many frees with wild pulling while Kildorrery were quite disciplined in that sense. I think the powers needs to consider letting second string teams compete in the Junior championship proper to help bring up the standard of Junior teams competing in these championships. But to give fair credit Kildorrery are an excellent side.As for the goal posts theory, dont think overcast conditions helped vision either but it would be quite expensive to move the complex a little bit over to the left!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Deise Tom


    Was at the Butlerstown game. First of all I have to say what an awful setup Carriganore is for a championship game. No scoreboard and no one on a speaker calling out subs/additional time etc. Like a challege match you actually wouldnt have a clue whats going on half the time. The huge travelling support must have been less than impressed considering they outnumbered local support by at least 5 to 1.
    As it turns out no scoreboard needed as it was an embarrasingly one-sided game even more so than the scoreline suggests.
    Really highlighted the difference in standard in both counties. Lets not forget that Butlerstown pretty much cake-walked the county final whereas Kildorrery needed a replay to win theirs by a point. The Cork side will take beating in fairness and while Butlerstown are a young side they depended heavily on frees from Jim Power for scores.
    One more thing, right behind one of the goals is the big sports complex. It is really hard to make out the goalposts from a distance due to the white colour of the building and poles/flag masts ect in the background. Both teams hit a rake of wides into this goal I think its no coincidence.
    Pretty bad conditions aswell thats no ones fault but lets just say I left Carriganore feeling pretty disatisfied with value for my tenner!

    The result today showed one thing. The need for all county competitions in Waterford. The County and Divisional Board officers, (All of them, there is some for it already), need to look at results like this and ask themselves are they happy for teams to come through lobsided divisional championships and then a county final where they are likely to get a hammering. At least in the west this year apart from one or two games the championship was close, but in the east Butlerstown were miles ahead of the rest.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Deise Tom


    deisedub wrote: »
    Hogan stand mentioning the possibility of dropping minor grade to u.17
    http://www.hoganstand.com/Tipperary/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=181079


    Makes sense. Most fellows now adays doing the leaving are 18. Bringing the age for minor down to 17 would mean that people would not have to worry about having to study for the Leaving and also having to make time to train for minor. In Handball a few years back there was talks of raising the minor age to under 19. I dont know if it went through however.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Deise Tom


    WumBuster wrote: »
    A bit of an unfair hatchet job on Carriganore there, Deisebhoy. I think the pitch was in fantastic condition for hurling considering the time of year and the conditions if it was played in Walsh or Fraher it would have been relative to playing in a swamp. There was a good travelling support but i thought the venue fitted the occasion fine. Scoreboards,PA announcements etc while they are a help the crowd is close enough to the pitch to see most of whats happening themselves anyway.

    The gulf in class was evident between the sides and Kildorrery were definitely more up for it too, in terms of a physical battle. Butlerstown gave away too many frees with wild pulling while Kildorrery were quite disciplined in that sense. I think the powers needs to consider letting second string teams compete in the Junior championship proper to help bring up the standard of Junior teams competing in these championships. But to give fair credit Kildorrery are an excellent side.As for the goal posts theory, dont think overcast conditions helped vision either but it would be quite expensive to move the complex a little bit over to the left!


    Who mentioned anything about the pitch. It was the facilities that were mentioned. PA system etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Deise Tom wrote: »
    Who mentioned anything about the pitch. It was the facilities that were mentioned. PA system etc.

    Well sure look if the facilties and everything else was perfect you'd still be having fellas complaining that they didnt get tea and sandwiches or something.But a scoreboard definitely wouldnt go astray out there though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭deisedude


    Treble20 wrote: »
    The standard of junior hurling must be very poor in Waterford? I expected Kildorrey to win but for them to put up 4-19 on a horrendous day like this is very impressive but doesn't say much for the opposition!

    I'd follow the championship in both Cork and Waterford and to me it boils down to the size of the counties. Very difficult to get out of junior and intermediate in Cork given the amount of teams. Cork junior teams would generally be a lot stronger than most counties bar Kilkenny


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    deisedude wrote: »
    I'd follow the championship in both Cork and Waterford and to me it boils down to the size of the counties. Very difficult to get out of junior and intermediate in Cork given the amount of teams. Cork junior teams would generally be a lot stronger than most counties bar Kilkenny

    Having seen the Kildorrery team play today I would say that they would be easily senior standard if they were playing in Waterford. About a similiar level to maybe Ballyduff or tallow. Apart from the few big city teams the standard of the rest of the clubs is quite mediocre really as you go down along. So thats what we're up against unfortunately.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭Treble20


    deisedude wrote: »
    I'd follow the championship in both Cork and Waterford and to me it boils down to the size of the counties. Very difficult to get out of junior and intermediate in Cork given the amount of teams. Cork junior teams would generally be a lot stronger than most counties bar Kilkenny
    That would be true deisedude. Cork would have a lot more junior teams than Waterford. I just thought a team from Waterford would put up a better challenge but as you say maybe not enough teams at junior level in the County to compete in Munster. I'd fully expect Kildorrey to beat the Limerick team St Kierans in the final,Kildorrey are a very good team mind you Brian Dillons should have beaten them the 2 games in the Cork final!


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭Treble20


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Having seen the Kildorrery team play today I would say that they would be easily senior standard if they were playing in Waterford. About a similiar level to maybe Ballyduff or tallow. Apart from the few big city teams the standard of the rest of the clubs is quite weak really as you go down along. So thats what we're up against unfortunately.
    Maybe an idea would be to let the Intermediate champions of Waterford compete in the Munster junior championship?


  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭solarith


    Treble20 wrote: »
    Maybe an idea would be to let the Intermediate champions of Waterford compete in the Munster junior championship?
    wat


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭Treble20


    solarith wrote: »
    wat
    Well I'm only suggesting a way to make Waterford clubs more competitve at Munster junior level but I'm sure it won't be allowed happen anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    deisedude wrote: »
    I'd follow the championship in both Cork and Waterford and to me it boils down to the size of the counties. Very difficult to get out of junior and intermediate in Cork given the amount of teams. Cork junior teams would generally be a lot stronger than most counties bar Kilkenny

    Regardless of what county the opposition are from, Waterford's junior and intermediate sides will be beaten.

    For any historians out there - how many Waterford sides have won a game at this level in the last 10 years - if any?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Treble20 wrote: »
    Maybe an idea would be to let the Intermediate champions of Waterford compete in the Munster junior championship?

    To cut to the chase, our championships are not structured properly at every level from senior down.

    In our senior championship, it has been common practise over the past few years for teams like DLS to beat the weaker clubs by up to 30 points. Clearly there are too many senior sides, who are in fact at an intermediate level.

    Our intermediate championship should be all county, and include probably 4 of the current senior sides. As a quick restructure, I'd take the 2012 East and West finalists along with the bottom 4 senior sides and make an intermediate premier grade.

    The remaining intermediate sides east and west should also form an all county intermediate championship between them.

    I'm not sure if an all county junior championship might put some guys off playing. From what I've seen, clubs regularly struggle to field teams at this grade, so it'd be far harder to round up 20 lads to travel potentially an hour away for a game in comparison to getting them to a game locally. The clubs at this level should be surveyed to gain their opinions.

    Actually the County Board if they were really thinking strategically should conduct a survey of all club players and mentors across the county. It amazes me how much policy is generated without consulting with the people who actually play the games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    Anyone at stradbally game today? Another hard luck story I believe

    Tom Kelly's twitter feed blaming a goalkeeping error?


  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭solarith


    Treble20 wrote: »
    Well I'm only suggesting a way to make Waterford clubs more competitve at Munster junior level but I'm sure it won't be allowed happen anyway.
    But this doesn't tackle the problem, as suggested above (and a million times!) - the issue is our competitions standard are diluted by having an eastern and western competition with far too many teams in it. If you split the intermediate into 2 intermediate divisions, you get more competitive standard so the standard goes up. It's as easy as ABC.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Deise Tom


    Treble20 wrote: »
    Well I'm only suggesting a way to make Waterford clubs more competitve at Munster junior level but I'm sure it won't be allowed happen anyway.


    The only way Waterford clubs will be competitive at Intermediate and Junior levels in Munster is to go all County. Butlerstown were worthy winners of this years County Junior Final, but how tested were they. They had it forever too easy in the East, in the West the competition was much more even, but I dont think the Geraldines were the best team in the competition. They had the rub of the green when it came to the knockout stages of the competition. As hurling teams I think the three other teams that reached the western semi finals were better hurling teams, but on the day its what happens over the hour that matters and things went The Geraldines way.

    We wont see All County Championships in Waterford however in the near future, unless there is a major change in the way people think. In the next few weeks we will have the divisional and county conventions and at these meetings you will have officers and ex officers of the boards stand up and give a sermon like what you would hear that the missions used to give in the past. It will be hands off our boards, and our boards have served this county well in the past and all that.

    Yes the Boards may have served the county well in the past, but the past is the past and it is the future that we should be looking at. How long is it now since a Waterford club won a game in Munster in Intermediate or Junior. Are clubs happy getting beaten year in year out, or are they happy just going into them to represent the county.

    How long are we hearing about this report now that City Manager Michael Walsh was asked to head up. Has anybody seen it or has it been discussed openly and how much of it has been acted upon.

    We need change in Waterford and we need it sooner rather than later.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Deise Tom


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Regardless of what county the opposition are from, Waterford's junior and intermediate sides will be beaten.

    For any historians out there - how many Waterford sides have won a game at this level in the last 10 years - if any?


    Tramore lost the final in 2004 or 2005 and I know Ballydurn drew a game a few years back against Saint Patrick's from Tipperary in Walsh Park but lost in Extra time. Ballyduff Upper also lost an Intermediate final in 2005 (I think) so Tramore and Ballyduff would have won a game, but there would not be too many more teams to do so.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    hardybuck wrote: »

    I'm not sure if an all county junior championship might put some guys off playing. From what I've seen, clubs regularly struggle to field teams at this grade, so it'd be far harder to round up 20 lads to travel potentially an hour away for a game in comparison to getting them to a game locally. The clubs at this level should be surveyed to gain their opinions.

    Actually the County Board if they were really thinking strategically should conduct a survey of all club players and mentors across the county. It amazes me how much policy is generated without consulting with the people who actually play the games.

    What I don't get about Junior, is they have 3 divisions. They have Premier, Attached Senior and Attached Intermediate. Why not just have more groups and put all the teams in the one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Teebor15


    What I don't get about Junior, is they have 3 divisions. They have Premier, Attached Senior and Attached Intermediate. Why not just have more groups and put all the teams in the one?

    Agree 100% with this. Its just a load of bullocks. So there are 3 winners of junior every year in each code. Add in the east/west championships..and there are 12 winners of junior championships every year! Why not just give every club a medal each year for turning up!

    I can just picture the scene with a team out celebrating after a Final.
    Stranger asks "So what did ye win?"
    "We won the Eastern Junior intermediate attached football final..wayhey..go on Ballyhoo!"
    Stranger "Er..ok..thats certainly sounds prestigious! Was it a long road to get there?..did ye have to beat many teams?"
    "Well there were only 3 teams in the whole competion it..so we played each other 19 times to decide the final pairing and it was tight time wise but we managed to to complete it within 6 months!"

    Like what many others here are saying..all county is the way to go.
    Senior,
    Intermediate Premier,
    Intermediate,
    Junior Premier/A
    Junior /B.

    All played all county bar Junior B.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 hurlerford


    Deise Tom wrote: »
    The only way Waterford clubs will be competitive at Intermediate and Junior levels in Munster is to go all County. Butlerstown were worthy winners of this years County Junior Final, but how tested were they. They had it forever too easy in the East, in the West the competition was much more even, but I dont think the Geraldines were the best team in the competition. They had the rub of the green when it came to the knockout stages of the competition. As hurling teams I think the three other teams that reached the western semi finals were better hurling teams, but on the day its what happens over the hour that matters and things went The Geraldines way.

    We wont see All County Championships in Waterford however in the near future, unless there is a major change in the way people think. In the next few weeks we will have the divisional and county conventions and at these meetings you will have officers and ex officers of the boards stand up and give a sermon like what you would hear that the missions used to give in the past. It will be hands off our boards, and our boards have served this county well in the past and all that.

    Yes the Boards may have served the county well in the past, but the past is the past and it is the future that we should be looking at. How long is it now since a Waterford club won a game in Munster in Intermediate or Junior. Are clubs happy getting beaten year in year out, or are they happy just going into them to represent the county.

    How long are we hearing about this report now that City Manager Michael Walsh was asked to head up. Has anybody seen it or has it been discussed openly and how much of it has been acted upon.

    We need change in Waterford and we need it sooner rather than later.


    Anyone know if the Waterford Strategic GAA Plan will ever be released. The county board talked so much about it in 2009 and 2010. Shame if it is to be abandoned because of recommendations made in it which are to the dislike of divisional officers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭zol 2


    Surprise selection for the u21 job! Heard Peter Queally, Darragh O Sullivan and Mac Dara of TG4 fame have got the nod.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭deisebhoy17


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Regardless of what county the opposition are from, Waterford's junior and intermediate sides will be beaten.

    For any historians out there - how many Waterford sides have won a game at this level in the last 10 years - if any?

    tend to win a couple in the football every now and then strangely enough....

    The only hurling wins I can recall is when Ballyduff Upper who eventually got to the Munster intermediate final beaten by Cork champions not by much. That was a good Ballyduff team who won the senior a couple years after.
    Also, one year Fenor beat the Clare junior champions but Fenor werent even Waterford champions as they were beaten by a second string team in the co. final (may have been lismore, not sure) and they were nominated to represent waterford.other than that I cant think of any other wins


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    zol 2 wrote: »
    Surprise selection for the u21 job! Heard Peter Queally, Darragh O Sullivan and Mac Dara of TG4 fame have got the nod.

    Wouldn't be too keen on that selection. Dunno anything about this Darragh O'Sullivan fella, maybe he can redeem the rest of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭ManFromCheese


    Wouldn't be too keen on that selection. Dunno anything about this Darragh O'Sullivan fella, maybe he can redeem the rest of it.

    Darragh is from Ballygunner, Shane's brother. He has managed ballygunner minor, u21s and seniors in the past. Very astute. My question would be over Macdara's inclusion!


  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Teebor15


    Darragh is from Ballygunner, Shane's brother. He has managed ballygunner minor, u21s and seniors in the past. Very astute. My question would be over Macdara's inclusion!

    Dont think he ever managed the Ballygunner seniors. He was a selector during Queallys time though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 hurlerford


    zol 2 wrote: »
    Surprise selection for the u21 job! Heard Peter Queally, Darragh O Sullivan and Mac Dara of TG4 fame have got the nod.

    Terrible decision, no continuation of management from the minor panels. Clare do the opposite and improve further at U21 while we bring in new people and the team put in a poor performance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    tend to win a couple in the football every now and then strangely enough....

    The only hurling wins I can recall is when Ballyduff Upper who eventually got to the Munster intermediate final beaten by Cork champions not by much. That was a good Ballyduff team who won the senior a couple years after.
    Also, one year Fenor beat the Clare junior champions but Fenor werent even Waterford champions as they were beaten by a second string team in the co. final (may have been lismore, not sure) and they were nominated to represent waterford.other than that I cant think of any other wins

    Well it looks like about 2005 since anyone won a game below senior. Considering that we're putting out 4 teams a year into junior and intermediate competitions, that's totally unacceptable.


This discussion has been closed.
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