[johnny_doyle]

Originally Posted by Derfil

We'd a German Luftwaffe pilot stay with us in the B&B recently in Kildare. He'd crashed on a beach in Wexford after taking damage on a raid in the UK.

any chance it was Heinkel HeIIIH-5 which landed near Rostoonstown Strand

http://www.goreyecho.ie/news/mhidgbgbgb/
http://www.kildare.ie/library/ehisto..._tacumshin.asp


There's a right up of this aircraft and some pictures in Landfall Ireland. Surviving crew named as Arthur Voight, Rudolf Hengst, Alfred Heinzel and Maximillian Galler . Gerd Rister killed and buried in Glencree Cemetery.

There's a picture of the tail from the aircraft visible here

http://www.nicholasfurlong.com/biography.htm

[CDfm]

My dad saw the Duncormack bombing and said that the german's regularly flew over Wexford and as a child he had no doubt they were the baddies.

German bombers also used to drop their loads in the sea off Wexford.

He was playing outside and is in no doubt that the Germans knew where they were and the bombing was deliberate.

That a bomber deliberately crash landed there does indicate that they knew where they were.

[Stovepipe]

The German long-distance weather forecasting system used to consist of a series of ships posted at various points in the Atlantic, broadcasting actual weather information to Germany (and anyone else on the relevant frequency). These ships were captured by the Allies soon after the start of WW II and the Germans were forced to rely on meteorological flights (Wekusta), which were sometimes intercepted by the RAF/RN.

The beacons mentioned in a previous post were pre-war beacons built for the use of the flying-boats that landed at Foynes.

As has been pointed out here, aviation fuel was scarce and hard got and carefully guarded, so the notion that it was available to be handed to the Germans is rubbish of the highest order.The Air Corps never had enough of it during the Emergency.

regards
Stovepipe

[nuac]

Originally Posted by moomooman

On the west coast of Ireland you can still see the coded marker beacon system that was set up at the request of the USA to help their bombers navigate to their bases in the UK.

RAF flying boats were allowed use Irish airspace to avoid a huge detour while patrolling the north atlantic.

The Royal Navy had a armed lifeboat based in Galway (I believe it was Galway?) that was patrolling and rescuing sailors throughout the war.

The Irish government was providing weather data to the allies, most crucially on the eve of Dday.

Some allied airmen were allowed to return to the north and thus return to their units.

Theres a whole lot of anti irish propaganda about WW2, I wonder what Switzerland was doing at the time....

Neutral Ireland did take a side in WW2 but it was the allied not the axis

RN Armed Lifboat in Galway Bay during WW2w - unlikely

1. Would have been a breach of neutrality.

2 West coast is exposed to Atlantic
Life boat would have to have a base e.g. Galway harbour, Aran, Rossavele - all public places.

3. Life boats are never armed

Like the mythical refuelling of U Boats and Gernan bombers, this is nonsense

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by nuac

RN Armed Lifboat in Galway Bay during WW2w - unlikely

1. Would have been a breach of neutrality.

2 West coast is exposed to Atlantic
Life boat would have to have a base e.g. Galway harbour, Aran, Rossavele - all public places.

3. Life boats are never armed

Like the mythical refuelling of U Boats and Gernan bombers, this is nonsense

+ 1 , the RAF did operate armed launches to rescue downed aircrew at sea but I highly doubt they had 1 based in the Free State.

Interesting point raised about Switzerland , throughout the war the Swiss supplied all manner of components to Germany even when it was clear these were being used for military purposes.
The story goes that the commander of the US Air Force in Europe when ordered to destroy German war production capability replied '' I could do that a lot quicker if I was allowed bomb Switzerland ''

Irish neutrality was always tilted in favour of the allies , the way aircrews were treated is proof of this - Allies were returned to the UK , Germans were locked up.

[dmcronin]

We didn't have much fuel (aviation or otherwise) for ourselves, let alone give it away to Jerry.

[CDfm]

I seem to remember something about a trawler in galway used for intelligence purposes.

We were very friendly neutrals and a lot of bull**** was written recently as part of the pardon the deserters campaign.

I posted a lot of material on our cooperation with the British .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=77556538

[johnny_doyle]

Originally Posted by Delancey

+ 1 , the RAF did operate armed launches to rescue downed aircrew at sea but I highly doubt they had 1 based in the Free State.

here's an example of an armed High Speed Launch operated by an Air Sea Rescue Marine Craft Unit (ASRMCU).

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/raf-rescue-boats

A number of ASRMCUs operated in the 6 counties. Not certain if they used these high speed launches. They definitely worked with steam trawlers. 4 definite units were :

number 56 Portaferry 1943-1945
number 57 Donaghadee 1943-1945
number 58 Larne 1942-1944
number 60 Culmore 1942-1944

not sure if number 59 was based in the area too.

The British armed trawler Robert Hastie was based in Killibegs, Co Donegal for air sea rescue as part of the "Donegal Corridor" agreement. Originally built in 1909, she also saw service as a patrol vessel in WW1. A number of the crew were prosecuted for smuggling good between Killibegs and Derry. She had been requisitioned in 1939 but returned to her owners in early 1940. Then requisitioned again in 1941 for "general duties" before being used for air sea rescue. A 2 pounder gun was replaced by machine guns and a store of rifles according to Donal MacCarron in his book "Landfall Ireland".

[tac foley]

If anybody cares to read 'Guests of the State' by T. Ryle Dwyer they might learn more about POWs in the Free State.

tac
vcrai.com

[CDfm]

Originally Posted by tac foley

If anybody cares to read 'Guests of the State' by T. Ryle Dwyer they might learn more about POWs in the Free State.

tac
vcrai.com

Trying to get thru Irish history is a minefield.

C'mon tac, whats you assessment ?

[tac foley]

Well, look at it this way, if any survivors of a crashed German aircraft were interned, as we know they actually were, why would the same state that interned them provide fuel for any that inadvertently landed?

Sadly, the one person who WOULD have been able to give you a definite answer, Herr Kurt Kyke, died a couple of years ago. Not only was he a good friend of a friend living in Drogheda, but he was one of the survivors of one of the very first German aircraft to crash in Ireland during the Emergency. He was, I bleeve, a radio operator, and his aircraft was a Focke-Wulf Condor reconaissance plane. They crashed 'uphill' and were therefore saved from an instant death on impacting the mountainside - the most serious injury was a broken arm or collar-bone- can't remember which. He elected to stay in Ireland at the end of his internment, and, AFAIK, never left.

Of course, the aviation author and history maven Tony Kearnes would be able to give you a better idea of the facts relating to this incident.

I'll do a bit of digging around and see what I can find out, but, in summary, IMO these myths and legends of Ireland providing safe haven and fuel for the Nazi German Luftwaffe are total sh!te.

Best to all

tac

[OS119]

like Tac, i'd have to say that pure logic would suggest that such 'myths' are utter ****e.

we know that German air crews were held as POW's and were unable to return to Germany to continue the war effort, while we know that a good many RAF aircrew were given a change of clothes, a good breakfast and a lift to the border.

we know that the IG provided weather data to the RAF, and that extra 24 hours of notice was crucial for RAF and combined operations. we also know the Germans got squat.

we know that the IG watched the German embassy like a hawk, and eventually removed their radio apparatus. we know that nothing like that happened to the UK or US embassies/high commision.

we know that Ireland an official policy of equi-distance: yet its planning cooperation with Germany consisted of 'if the Brits invade, we'll talk' while its defence planning with the UK was vastly more detailed.

i'm not absolutely sure how the logic of providing refuelling facilities for the Luftwaffe fits into this known and verified pattern.

while its clear that the level of cooperation/hostility to the UK fluctuated during the war, and that relations and practical policy were more strained at some times than others its obvious to all that Irelands wartime policy only fluctuated between remaining neutral while giving assistance to the UK that was not given to Germany, and being 'onside' while retaining the threadbare and see-through cloak of neutrality.

the great pity is that this victory for delft diplomacy, self-preservation and self-interest were thrown away as the war came to a close.

[nuac]

I live on the West coast and have sailed along it from Donegal to Cork.

there is nowhere a sub or seaplane could have refuelled without being spotted. While the landscape may look empty there is always somebody about, looking after stock, lifting lobster pots etc.

Also as already pointed out, fuel was very scarce, and severely rationed

Further the British had a net work of retired service people all around the coast who kept on eye on things for them

[Grizzly 45]

The most common variant of this myth is that we were secretly refuelling German U-boats.Why would the Irish State at a time of fuel rationing have had the inclination to do such a thing?

Only feasible solution to that would have been for the Germans to pre cache fuel possibly enough just to limp back into Brest,and possibly a few torpedos in some extremely isolated bay or uninhabited island off the West coast.Big enough risk to do it even on such a scale,but some sort of secret U boat pen complete with personel and Swastika flags...Fantasy!

FWIW about the Swiss neutrality and supplying the Germans,TBH so did the Swedes.They supplied both Axis and Allied with precision ball bearings.The book "the Ball bearing run" is based on this.So yes the Swiss would have supplied the 3rd Reich,and the Allies,if they could have exported it to them.One thing however the Swiss were noted for was defending their airspace..There are several accounts of Luftwaffe and Swiss airforce skirmishes along the frontier.Must have been intresting as both sides were flying Messerschmit 109s.By 1945 the Swiss airforce had a large supply of both Axis and Allied aircraft that had landed in Switzerland and were pressed into service,unlike Ireland where we stripped them down and either transported them back to the border or junked them in the Curragh.Switzerland had also a high pouplation of USAAF,Luftwaffe,and RAF personel by the end.As really said where were you going to go as it is pretty difficult to get out of Switzerland if they dont want you to leave.

Dev
Looking at his actions,I really think he did walk the neutrality line in 39/45.His "blunder" of condolences at the German embassy has to be looked at in context of the times.Was he to know how long the war might have continued??Was it possible that the 3rd Reich could have fought on in the Alpen festung[if it existed under Doneitz?]It was a well known fact and confirmed,[but still kept mostly STHUM by Garda SB /G2 intell ] that Dev was a good personel friend of Hempel and did visit the German legation in a personal capacity on numerous occasions.
The slanted neutrality,well he finally realised after the disasterous economic war with Britan,that we needed them no matter what,to keep us supplied however meagerily with supplies to keep us going.
All in all for what he had ,and had to face on a world conflict,it was a good performance for an Irish politican

[nuac]

Originally Posted by Riprod

Another little fact from history, the D-Day Invasion hung on a weather report from Blacksod Bay in Co. Mayo. Irish weather information always found its way to the Allies (not the Axis). A report of a calm spell between the 5th and 7th June 1944 as predicted with info from Blacksod gave Ike the window to launch the invasion. Weather info from spies, Focke-Wulf Condors and subs were the usual German platforms for forecasts. The German forecasts for early June 1944 were indicating bad weather, therefore all the Generals were off on leave or involved in wargames.

Yes this is true. A Mr Sweeney sent the forecast by phone direct to British Met people. There is a plaque at Blacksod to commemorate it.

The news was vital to the success of the DDAY landings.