[seanynova]

Originally Posted by Gringo78

In Daniels Running Formula 1st Edition he had a table which suggested a slowdown of 1sec/mile/deg above 16degC. He did not include this in current 2nd edition of book but that would back up the calculator above you quoted which says 13sec/mile difference over 16-29degC temperature rise.

I ran in the past in Carribean & hottest part of south eastern turkey (>40degC) and the heat definetly takes it out of you but it'll stand to you. Just make sure you don't get dehydrated as I left myself drift a bit too close to the edge in the past and its not a good idea - you seem to be doing good so far though.

if defo costs something but hard to know how much on the shorter intervals....to be honest it could be me more that the weather as it wasn't 'too' warm sunday night and i was still struggling....although, i was getting a little dehyrdated (thirsty!)

you will be trying to avoid the carribean and trukey this summer i take it! be a nice break in november all the same!!

how is you training going? any good sessions completed lately? how is your tempo pace looking these days? i recokon for myself i need to be at least as low as 6:06m/m to be in with a shot of 2:50 marathon, differrent for other people though.

[seanynova]

Originally Posted by Killerz

Hey seany, ya, i'm pretty bad at following logs myself.... Try to catch up on them when i'm not too crazy busy. I didnt catch exactly where in canada you're based?

Hoping to get down to just under the 3 hour mark in chicago all going well. I trained through the lovely toronto summer last year for the waterfront marathon, where i got my BQ, then trained through the winter here for Boston and a 3:01 odd here in toronto in horrendous wind and rain. So, a solid few weeks now and a decent day in chicago is what i'm hoping for.

The guy doing the 10 miler got in touch alright- seems to be located quite close to me here downtown toronto.

if i told you where i am in canada you might not have heard of it lol....na, im in the peg, its not exactly top of the list for many people but when your dating a canadian girl, sometimes you just dont have a choice...lol.
have you been? the sun here is VERY strong, strongest i felt in canada, its not known for humidity but this year has been a bit humid, not much rain and like TO temps regularly in the 30s (40s with humidex).
i also ran a lot in montreal, a lot more hmid there but sun not as strong, even with same temps if you know what i mean.

ive been to TO a few times too, good spot, used to run along king/queen st out to the park, small kind of loop.
seems like you are well prepared for an assault on sub3, obviously been close and with a good day weather wise you should be ok.

how are you finding paces compared to your winter paces?

[seanynova]

mon: had a cool day with a drizzle of rain....murphys law though as it came on a recovery run....lol

6.0m, 48:32mins @8:05m/m HR 143/156
19degs wet!

to compare, HR for last year for similar pace...9 weeks out from marathon(above is 12 weeks out)
5m, 40:15mins @8:03m/m avHR149 18degs ish.

so looking ok on the aerobic capacity side of things if thats the right way to put it, although i kind of knew that as all my runs are ran with low HR, im just running lazy, maybe i should run faster on easy runs?

got a new pair of shoes today, after putting 400m+ on my waveriders, which may have been a bad idea as i prob should be wearing support shoes(?), i got a pair of brooks ravenna2....for a staggering $170!!! be cheaper to ship them from home! but that folks is the going rate here in the land of oppertunity! but the shoes feel good and a feel a lot better than the old mizuno's...1st impression good.

total weekly mileage: 6m

[Gringo78]

Originally Posted by seanynova

if defo costs something but hard to know how much on the shorter intervals....to be honest it could be me more that the weather as it wasn't 'too' warm sunday night and i was still struggling....although, i was getting a little dehyrdated (thirsty!)

you will be trying to avoid the carribean and trukey this summer i take it! be a nice break in november all the same!!

how is you training going? any good sessions completed lately? how is your tempo pace looking these days? i recokon for myself i need to be at least as low as 6:06m/m to be in with a shot of 2:50 marathon, differrent for other people though.

Training was going good but stomach problems took me out for a few weeks and only back into things in the last few days but I'm still in good shape and am a lot better prepared further out than I have been in other years so not too worried about 2 poor weeks training with 12 weeks still to go.

I'm doing things in reverse to you - training in the cold and then racing a half marathon in september in southern Spain in what is likely to be 30degC.

2 sessions a week is all I'm doing - one 18 miler with reps of PMP miles thrown in ( like 5,4,3,2,1 or 4x3miles) and one 14-16miler with tempo miles (last one was 14min-12min-10min-8min). Their B*stardised Daniels sessions which I find great. I have a concern that I am changing the way I trained before which was long runs slow & then PMP miles in seperate sessions but due to fitting everything in I am forced to go this way so hopefully it works out - I'm getting lots more miles in though and generally have seen dramatic improvement when I have a sustained few weeks of >40mpw.

Pace wise I am training to HR so the paces do vary week to week but I am hitting around 2:47 pace for PMP miles and average 6:00 pace for tempo minutes around now although to be honest they are dropping fast with improvement week by week so they haven't plateaued yet which is a good sign.

[Killerz]

Havent had the pleasure of visiting the peg yet i'm afraid! Liking toronto a lot- plenty to do, and plenty to distract me from running!

I would say my paces in training are at their best from march-may and in sep and oct, which are perfect running months usually. While the humidity does slow me down, its more vs springtime than winter, as i have to change my running style in winter so as to cope with snow.

[seanynova]

Originally Posted by Gringo78

Training was going good but stomach problems took me out for a few weeks and only back into things in the last few days but I'm still in good shape and am a lot better prepared further out than I have been in other years so not too worried about 2 poor weeks training with 12 weeks still to go.

I'm doing things in reverse to you - training in the cold and then racing a half marathon in september in southern Spain in what is likely to be 30degC.

2 sessions a week is all I'm doing - one 18 miler with reps of PMP miles thrown in ( like 5,4,3,2,1 or 4x3miles) and one 14-16miler with tempo miles (last one was 14min-12min-10min-8min). Their B*stardised Daniels sessions which I find great. I have a concern that I am changing the way I trained before which was long runs slow & then PMP miles in seperate sessions but due to fitting everything in I am forced to go this way so hopefully it works out - I'm getting lots more miles in though and generally have seen dramatic improvement when I have a sustained few weeks of >40mpw.

Pace wise I am training to HR so the paces do vary week to week but I am hitting around 2:47 pace for PMP miles and average 6:00 pace for tempo minutes around now although to be honest they are dropping fast with improvement week by week so they haven't plateaued yet which is a good sign.

good going gringo, paces are well above where you need to be at this stage, looking good for the race. your right not to worry about the missed training this far out as 12 weeks training on top of a good build up seams to be enough for most people....are you going to race any other race in the build up? hope you get good conditions and will give you a good indicator at least of where your are race pace wise. but if you know your on HR/paces then you should have a fair idea of PMP anwyay.
with regards to your session, i have recently being referred to renato canavo, the long sessions apparantly have a lot of PMP stuff....

anyway, keep it going gringo...check in with an update in a few weeks or something

[seanynova]

Originally Posted by Killerz

Havent had the pleasure of visiting the peg yet i'm afraid! Liking toronto a lot- plenty to do, and plenty to distract me from running!

I would say my paces in training are at their best from march-may and in sep and oct, which are perfect running months usually. While the humidity does slow me down, its more vs springtime than winter, as i have to change my running style in winter so as to cope with snow.

good to know that autumn is a good time for trianing anway, ill have to take up cross country skiing or ice skating etc to keep me going throughout the winter...

not much in the peg anyway so not much to come here for...ive been to there a few times, its has grown on me the more i visit there. how long you living there? planning on staying?

[seanynova]

tues: rest(unplanned)

wed: 14.5m easy

thurs: 2.5m easy...stupid lunch run, prob wont do that again...too hot and not worth the effort for time.

fri: rest (travel day)

sat: 15m; 7m warm up easy; 10k PMP/tempo and 2m cool down.

sun: 6m easy

total weekly mileage: 44m

the 10k(as part of a tri) was a mixed bag, was going to do it as a PMP session, but my HR was riding high and decided after 2m to change to a long tempo.
mile splits were
6:30(171/177)
6:25 (177/183)
6:21 (175/183)
6:19 (178/184)
6:24 (176/186)
6:10 (177/185)
ave 6:20m/m

ran this all on my own, we were a team for the triathalon so by the time the run came round i was bang in the middle of the field, against people who weree after competing the whole olympic tri or whatever so was passing people the whole way, at 5k i was in no-mans land but drove on and finished with a sprint finish.

all in all, its a poor week running wise but got a couple of longer runs in and a tempo effort.

hopefuly will get a better week done this week but it not looking good for tonight

[seanynova]

mon: rest

tues: 10.5m, 1:27:04mins @8:17m/m HR 150/180
22degs, cool/v windy!!

6x 0.62m Splits(maxHR)-pace:
3:39(176)-5:54
3:25(180)-5:31
3:37(177)-5:50
3:30(178)-5:39
3:37(179)-5:50
3:29(179)-5:38

was another poor effort pity as it was cool(afternoon 22degs is cooler that morning 22degs for some reason (!!???!!), was very windy and the run was; 0.62m facing the wind, and 0.62m with the wind, splits reflect this...HR however does not, these should be hitting 184bpm ish, again to put into context, my average half marathon HR is 180bpm....sick of saying that now but it seams to be the story of my running this year....

total weekly mileage: 10.5m

[Gringo78]

Originally Posted by seanynova

HR however does not, these should be hitting 184bpm ish, again to put into context, my average half marathon HR is 180bpm....sick of saying that now but it seams to be the story of my running this year....

total weekly mileage: 10.5m

Have the same problem myself - not sure why this is but I have a theory that its something to do with not having the specific training to push into the faster paces required i.e back when I ran 3:26 for a marathon, (MP 7:52) I could still push the pace out to 5:15-5:30 on strides which would drive my HR right up - in fact, HR/anaerobic capacity was my limiter, I could sprint and drive the HR up close to max. Since I've got fitter, 5:30 is more like 5k pace so thats not going to elevate the HR up to previous levels, and certainly not over the course of a 1k rep. To try to hit max HR I have to push paces into the 4:xx zone and thats where I fall down - I don't train at those paces ( I never do any strides - something I need to introduce) so find it hared to hit them, legs/muscles being the limiters now, not HR.

I've been doing the odd track session with a club and in a group situation, trailing much faster runners, I can find an extra gear and get the HR up, but I can't seem to do it on my own.

Last 2 interval sessions I did on my own were 5x1km & 8x1km - was hitting 5:55 pace approx on both and I thought I was giving it socks. Last club session interval: 6 x 1.1k at 5:20 pace and I was getting the HR right up.

I would say for marathon training, it doesn't matter that you're not getting the HR up but if you were training for a 5k race then you'd be in trouble - I found over the last 6 months that my 3k/5k race times were significantly better after periods of high attendance at the club sessions. When I had to do the interval sessions on my own, my 5k times suffered.

[seanynova]

Originally Posted by Gringo78

Have the same problem myself - not sure why this is but I have a theory that its something to do with not having the specific training to push into the faster paces required i.e back when I ran 3:26 for a marathon, (MP 7:52) I could still push the pace out to 5:15-5:30 on strides which would drive my HR right up - in fact, HR/anaerobic capacity was my limiter, I could sprint and drive the HR up close to max. Since I've got fitter, 5:30 is more like 5k pace so thats not going to elevate the HR up to previous levels, and certainly not over the course of a 1k rep. To try to hit max HR I have to push paces into the 4:xx zone and thats where I fall down - I don't train at those paces ( I never do any strides - something I need to introduce) so find it hared to hit them, legs/muscles being the limiters now, not HR.

I've been doing the odd track session with a club and in a group situation, trailing much faster runners, I can find an extra gear and get the HR up, but I can't seem to do it on my own.

Last 2 interval sessions I did on my own were 5x1km & 8x1km - was hitting 5:55 pace approx on both and I thought I was giving it socks. Last club session interval: 6 x 1.1k at 5:20 pace and I was getting the HR right up.

I would say for marathon training, it doesn't matter that you're not getting the HR up but if you were training for a 5k race then you'd be in trouble - I found over the last 6 months that my 3k/5k race times were significantly better after periods of high attendance at the club sessions. When I had to do the interval sessions on my own, my 5k times suffered.

thats a very good way of putting it, and i have a feeling your spot on regarding the limitations.
i have been running very slowely on my easy runs, but maybe 'too' on some/most of them if they are not recovery...so when it comes to running faster stuff eg intervals and tempos, i find it hard to keep pace even though the HR is low.

seems to be a problem you have aswell, when training in groups its easier to keep pace...but just think of it when your racing the marathon, plenty of people to pace off so it 'should' feel easier....we live in hope anyway.

what i think ill do is introduce strides and pick up the pace of my easy runs, make sure the HR goes up a little higher but still in the easy zone....hopefully notice something in a few weeks!

cheers for the input.

[seanynova]

wed: 8m easy

thurs: 13m easy

ran both of these with some slightly faster than normal easy miles....(talking 7:30/7:40) will recover the next two days before a big session on sunday....peak mileage week this week, pity i missed monday.

[theboyblunder]

Hi Seany

Good running there. Good to see you increase the pace on the easy ones - 7:30 - 7:40 shouldnt take too much out of you.

I think you might be a week behind the schedule - I made the same mistake last year - his programme starts the first week with a Q1 session, not ends with it. it makes little difference now but will later on in the taper!

My peak week was last week.

[seanynova]

Originally Posted by theboyblunder

Hi Seany

Good running there. Good to see you increase the pace on the easy ones - 7:30 - 7:40 shouldnt take too much out of you.

I think you might be a week behind the schedule - I made the same mistake last year - his programme starts the first week with a Q1 session, not ends with it. it makes little difference now but will later on in the taper!

My peak week was last week.

cheers,

i remember you posting that on speedys log last time, im aware of the error but when deciding on the plan i was happy enough to schedule a 12m run incl tempo miles 8days out from DCM like last year....instead of 90mins easy...ill be luck to stick to that plan as it is anyway, but almost half way there!

[seanynova]

fri: 8m Easy

sat: 6m Easy

sun: 20m, 2:29:36mins @7:28m/m HR 156/175
11-18degs cool/sunny

3m warm-up;
4x 6min Tempo Splits:
6:21(165/171)
6:19(167/171)
6:14(168/164)
6:18(168/173)

60mins Easy @ 7:44m/m

4x 5min Tempo Splits:
6:19(167/171)
6:19(165/171)
6:15(166/173)
6:12(169/175)
2m warm down

happy with this session, found it hard to push the pace on the first set of tempo reps, HR shows this, but at least i didnt drop off pace or found myself working too hard, each was pretty much the same effort wise...ran the 60mins a little faster than normal for easy but i want to do that from now on and the 2nd set of tempos was hard due to fatigue but pace was ok, actually found it easier to run a little faster....as in leg turnover...prob cos i was well awake at that stage.

weather was good nice and cold starting out, cold in the shade but the sun still give off heat, for most of the run it was just like a sunny day in ireland, so no complaints, the best weather ive had so far for a long run.

total weekly mileage: 66m