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For anyone interested in gaining a Maths qualification

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  • 22-06-2011 12:09pm
    #1
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭


    I've been doing Maths modules with the Open University for the last couple of years with the view to getting a maths degree. Two of their maths degrees are recognised by the Teaching Council, so I had picked one of those so I'd also be qualified to teach maths as well.

    Anyway there was a small piece in the May (I think) issue of Astir about gaining maths qualifications and it stated that if you have maths in the first year of your primary degree and you do the following OU modules : MST121, MS221 and M208 the Teaching Council will register you for maths. Anyway I had those modules done and more with it.

    So I rang the TC and got through to a human!!! Explained my situation, she told me it sounded fine, to send in my original degree transcript, my OU transcript and a cover letter explaining what I wanted. Did that last Wednesday and yesterday checked my profile on the TC website and there I am registered for maths. Couldn't believe that there was no problems with red tape.

    In case anyone is wondering a full degree with OU is 360 credits and those three modules are 30, 30 and 60 credits each so it makes up one third of a degree.

    I will still finish the degree but I'm under no pressure to get it done in a shorter time now and I can choose other subjects if I want to make up my credits which keeps it more interesting.

    Just thought I'd post for anyone that is interested .


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    #2
    therunaround
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭therunaround


    Thats brilliant, did they not try to charge you for adding on a subject? How long would one of these modules take and cost?

    Also congrats on a fantastic ag science book, gone through it forensically and its really impressive


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    #3
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    therunaround wrote: »
    Thats brilliant, did they not try to charge you for adding on a subject? How long would one of these modules take and cost?

    Also congrats on a fantastic ag science book, gone through it forensically and its really impressive

    Thanks:D

    A 30 credit OU modules is currently £785, which is about €880. A 60 credit module is £1320 (€1480).

    The first module MST121 usually runs Oct - June. Continuous assessment assignments, no end of year exam. There's also a second run of it from Feb - Oct.

    The second module MS221, runs Oct - June, assignments plus end of year exam. You could do both of those modules at the same time, it is doable and is a common enough combination.

    The third module M208, runs Jan - Oct, more heavy going. If you were willing to go all out you could start in October this year and be done by October the following year. If not you could do the first two modules in one year and do the following module in the second year. Again assignments plus end of year exam.

    When I did it, MS221 was only offered Feb - Oct, so i started it when I was halfway through MST121. I also took on M208 at the same time, so I had the three done in one year.

    Realistically you could do all of MST121 from Sept (they send out the books before the course starts) to Christmas which is what I did, I had the asssignments completed and ready to be posted on the necessary dates and then I could focus on the other two modules.

    Totally doable and very much worth it if you want a core subject to add to your list of subjects.

    EDIT: Oh ya, the TC didn't charge me either!!

    Oh ya, OU degrees qualify for tax relief on tuition fees from the revenue, so it does take some pain out of the cost.


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    #4
    therunaround
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭therunaround


    cool, iv an ag science degree so iv ag biology and junior science. I also teach maths up to ol leaving cert, and strangely although i found maths boring in school, its the one I probably teach best, iv really got into it.
    Think id have to stretch it over the 2 years, iv a lot of extra curricular stuff, until 7 most evenings, but I think I may have to do something like these OU modules for my job security. The principal is getting flustered about the teaching council even though they have shag all power to do anything from what I can see


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    #5
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    therunaround wrote: »
    cool, iv an ag science degree so iv ag biology and junior science. I also teach maths up to ol leaving cert, and strangely although i found maths boring in school, its the one I probably teach best, iv really got into it.
    Think id have to stretch it over the 2 years, iv a lot of extra curricular stuff, until 7 most evenings, but I think I may have to do something like these OU modules for my job security. The principal is getting flustered about the teaching council even though they have shag all power to do anything from what I can see

    Ya it could be the difference between getting redeployed or losing your job to someone else because they have the subject and you don't. It certainly can't hurt to have an extra subject.


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    #6
    Celephais
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Celephais


    Interesting, that could be worth looking into as a future option for improving my employability. I'm quite nervous doing the Dip in just English and RE, so I'm already planning ahead to add another two subjects onto my qualifications if possible. Glad that everything worked out nicely for you!


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    #7
    mimmi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mimmi


    Great feed-back rainbowtrout, nice to hear that TC was so seemless for you ;o)

    Just to add, if you dont have First Year Maths as part of a Science or Engineering degree e.g. you have an Arts/Social Science degree, the TC will accept MST121, MS221, M208 and a Level 3 maths module.


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    #8
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    mimmi wrote: »
    Great feed-back rainbowtrout, nice to hear that TC was so seemless for you ;o)

    Just to add, if you dont have First Year Maths as part of a Science or Engineering degree e.g. you have an Arts/Social Science degree, the TC will accept MST121, MS221, M208 and a Level 3 maths module.

    That's great. If they could just be as clear cut about all the other subjects!


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    #9
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    That's great. If they could just be as clear cut about all the other subjects!

    The beauty of Maths is that it is clear cut!

    After the M208 module I did another 60 point course with the OU called the Physical World - absolutely fascinating. I'm sorry I don't have as much time for it anymore though!


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    #10
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    mimmi wrote: »
    Great feed-back rainbowtrout, nice to hear that TC was so seemless for you ;o)

    Just to add, if you dont have First Year Maths as part of a Science or Engineering degree e.g. you have an Arts/Social Science degree, the TC will accept MST121, MS221, M208 and a Level 3 maths module.

    It seems strange that those missing a First Year maths module would need to replace it with a Third Year maths module.


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    #11
    mimmi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mimmi


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    It seems strange that those missing a First Year maths module would need to replace it with a Third Year maths module.


    That's the TC for you !!!


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    #12
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    You can also claim a study tax credit from the revenue. Think it worked out at 300€ for me ( although I paid the high fees that were applicable to people from the south)


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    #13
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    mimmi wrote: »
    That's the TC for you !!!

    I know - at times they defy logic.

    Have you a link to where it is stated that those without first year maths need a third year module?

    Thanks


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    #14
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    I've deleted some of the posts in this thread following advice from the legal guys on Boards. Please do not discuss ways to avoid paying the fees by lying to OU.


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    #15
    mrboswell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭mrboswell


    Thanks to rainbowtrout for posting the positive result - I'm sure there are a number if people on here that are a module or so short (including me).

    I'm away on hols so I was wondering if the link for the information to hand? Save me going looking :p

    Thanks


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    #16
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    http://issuu.com/astiunion/docs/astir_may2011_web?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true

    It's page 5 of the May issue of ASTIR. Titled 'Maths Upgrade for Registration' There is a misprint in the paragraph. They have listed the first module as M121 (no such module exists) when it should be MST121.


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    #17
    biddy boop
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭biddy boop


    Hi Rainbow and all,

    I have been followin numerous treads re: teachin and goin back to college etc so I really appreciated all the info and insights

    I want to get into teachin, however i am fully aware there are no jobs and pay cuts, longer hours, larger classes etc Teachin is simply something Ive always wanted to do &if i dont get quaified now, i nvr will and will be in jobs im never happy in for the rest of my workin life

    Furthermore, i want to teach home economics so it means 4 long yrs around €28000 in fees and uprootin to county Sligo

    I find out on Thursday if Im accepted, I may defer the year to save money and prepare myself realistically for the transition.

    ANYWAY, i would also love to teach maths and i was delighted to read these posts. Can anyone tell me if I do the B.Ed in Home ec and the 4 modules (i dont have 1yr maths) with open university would I too be qualified to teach maths or is the open university route only applicable to PGDE/Hdip grads
    Also would I be able to teach business from my other undergraduate that I completed in 2006 after doin the B.Ed in home ec??

    Also any other thoughts/advise are welcome although please dont be too negative

    Thanks


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    #18
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    biddy boop wrote: »
    Hi Rainbow and all,

    I have been followin numerous treads re: teachin and goin back to college etc so I really appreciated all the info and insights

    I want to get into teachin, however i am fully aware there are no jobs and pay cuts, longer hours, larger classes etc Teachin is simply something Ive always wanted to do &if i dont get quaified now, i nvr will and will be in jobs im never happy in for the rest of my workin life

    Furthermore, i want to teach home economics so it means 4 long yrs around €28000 in fees and uprootin to county Sligo

    I find out on Thursday if Im accepted, I may defer the year to save money and prepare myself realistically for the transition.

    ANYWAY, i would also love to teach maths and i was delighted to read these posts. Can anyone tell me if I do the B.Ed in Home ec and the 4 modules (i dont have 1yr maths) with open university would I too be qualified to teach maths or is the open university route only applicable to PGDE/Hdip grads
    Also would I be able to teach business from my other undergraduate that I completed in 2006 after doin the B.Ed in home ec??

    Also any other thoughts/advise are welcome although please dont be too negative

    Thanks


    This should probably get a thread of it's own, but this is my interpretation of your situation.

    If you are accepted to the BEd. Home Ec you will be a qualified Home Ec teacher in 4 years time. Once you have registered with the Teaching Council as a Home Ec teacher submit your Business Degree to them. If it's on the list of recognised degrees it would just be added to your list of subjects that you are qualified to teach.

    It would be the same if you complete the maths modules with OU. Anyone can enrol in OU once they stump up the fees but you would have to have a teaching qualification for the modules to be added to your list of qualifications.

    On another note, as there a number of electives with the Home Ec degree Economics, Biology, Religion, Irish to the best of my knowledge, which option have you chosen? To me it would make most sense to take anyone other than Economics if your Business degree is on the TC list. On the other hand, your degree may not qualify you in Economics if you did Accounting and Marketing or whatever, so maybe it would suit you best.

    I myself have a BSc Ed, so the OU maths route is open to any qualified teacher registered with the Teaching Council.


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    #19
    biddy boop
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭biddy boop


    Rainbowtrout,

    You are a star, thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

    I know I need to research more regardin the teaching council, but it wasn't until i read this tread that it dawned on me that my previous degree could add to my subjects

    It makes me feel more positive about pursuing the 4yr degree in home ec as i will have a few subjects under my belt and therefore more employable. Also I love maths being able to teach that just makes me want to teach more.

    Fingers crossed I get accepted, and the 4yrs dont kill me!!

    Ps I applied for all the electives, although I dont have the requirements for Irish. Biology is my first choice, as I enjoy it more but also thought science would be more employable again.


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    #20
    theglobe
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭theglobe


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    http://issuu.com/astiunion/docs/astir_may2011_web?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true

    It's page 5 of the May issue of ASTIR. Titled 'Maths Upgrade for Registration' There is a misprint in the paragraph. They have listed the first module as M121 (no such module exists) when it should be MST121.

    Hi, finding this thread really interesting. Basically I have a commerce degree and want to go into teaching, its turned into a real dead end though with just business subjects, at least for me! I did some maths in my commerce degree and was always decent at maths, how difficult are these modules? Obviously if it qualifies you to to teach it I'm assuming theyre going to be very difficult, but would you want a big background in maths before even considering doing it? Can you then use maths as your primary teaching subject and qualify as a non bbs student? Thaks for all the info!

    Edit: kinda misinterpreted there, I'd be hoping to do this before doing the hdip, so I could do my hdip in maths? Is this possible at all?


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    #21
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    theglobe wrote: »
    Hi, finding this thread really interesting. Basically I have a commerce degree and want to go into teaching, its turned into a real dead end though with just business subjects, at least for me! I did some maths in my commerce degree and was always decent at maths, how difficult are these modules? Obviously if it qualifies you to to teach it I'm assuming theyre going to be very difficult, but would you want a big background in maths before even considering doing it? Can you then use maths as your primary teaching subject and qualify as a non bbs student? Thaks for all the info!

    Edit: kinda misinterpreted there, I'd be hoping to do this before doing the hdip, so I could do my hdip in maths? Is this possible at all?

    I don't know if you could do your HDip in Maths this way. I assume the colleges offering the PGDE base it on your degree, particularly as the degree counts for points getting into the course. If you only completed maths modules required by the Teaching Council, you wouldn't have a full maths degree. This route for maths recognition is only available for teachers who already have a full degree and are qualified.

    I think to do maths as part of the PGDE you'd probably have to do the whole maths degree... that's just my opinion.

    However if you got onto the PGDE with your business degree and qualifed as a business teacher, you could do the maths modules (or you might already have them completed at that stage) and then apply to the Teaching Council once you were registered as a business teacher to have your maths modules added to your list of qualifications so you would be registered for maths as well.

    As for the difficulty of the modules, well I find maths handy enough anyway, so I'd be a bit biased. However the first module (MST121) I'd rate on par with Higher Level Leaving Cert Maths and maybe some topics that you would cover in first year maths in college. The second module (MS221) builds on that and is more difficult, but having said that, there were topics in that module that I hadn't studied before where as most of material in the first module was familiar at some level (calculus, matrices I think, statistics, can't remember what else).

    The third module has double the number of credits than the first two and double the amount of work as a result. It's also more difficult and does require work. This was a fairly theoretical module, lots of stuff with matrices which I liked, proofs which I'm not too fond of at the best of times - it focuses on Group Theory, Linear Algebra and Analysis mainly. But it is very doable and there are assignments along the way.

    EDIT: I just spotted your post on the other thread which is locked now, if you do go ahead and do the modules, the first two MST121 and MS221 will give you a Certificate in Maths when you have the two complete. Somebody on that thread mentioned that a cert will get you a point on the PGDE score thing.


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    #22
    le souteneur
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭le souteneur


    Rainbowtrout, I read this post a few weeks ago and thought what you initially stated was great as I have been considering doing a hDip in order to teach maths. I am just about to finish a masters in engineering next year and thought that doing the three modules you stated though the Open university would have me recognised by the teaching council but your last post seems to say this is not the case. Does this only work if you already have a subject fully recognised (such as by doing a degree in say english and then adding maths).
    If you could let me know it'd be great and congrats on being recognised yourself for the maths.


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    #23
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    le souteneur wrote: »
    Rainbowtrout, I read this post a few weeks ago and thought what you initially stated was great as I have been considering doing a hDip in order to teach maths. I am just about to finish a masters in engineering next year and thought that doing the three modules you stated though the Open university would have me recognised by the teaching council but your last post seems to say this is not the case. Does this only work if you already have a subject fully recognised (such as by doing a degree in say english and then adding maths).
    If you could let me know it'd be great and congrats on being recognised yourself for the maths.


    To get into the Dip you must already have a complete degree in a subject on the curriculum. Doing 3 modules from the OU would not meet this criteria....so unless your engineering degree qualifies you to teach a subject on the curriculum then I don't think you'll get into the Dip.

    The other route would be to complete a maths degree with the OU and then apply to the Dip.

    To get a degree with the OU you need 360 points from a selectionof level 1,2 and 3 courses. The three listed courses are 60 points at 60 points at level 2. You also might gain up to 120 points for previous study (your degree and masters).

    There are so some postgrad courses with I think NUI Maynooth that give the holders qualifications in Maths but they might just be for teachers already qualified and not people outside the system but in case I'm wrong you should check it out.

    Hopefully I'm correct in most of what I've said but if not then maybe someone will correct me.


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    #24
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    le souteneur wrote: »
    Rainbowtrout, I read this post a few weeks ago and thought what you initially stated was great as I have been considering doing a hDip in order to teach maths. I am just about to finish a masters in engineering next year and thought that doing the three modules you stated though the Open university would have me recognised by the teaching council but your last post seems to say this is not the case. Does this only work if you already have a subject fully recognised (such as by doing a degree in say english and then adding maths).
    If you could let me know it'd be great and congrats on being recognised yourself for the maths.

    To be honest, I wouldn't like to call it either way. To get into a PGDE you must hold a degree, to be registered with the TC you must be a qualified teacher and have a degree which is recognised by the TC. So I am assuming that this route is only open to qualified teachers. Otherwise it would leave the way open for people to drop out of college after a year or two and then try to register as teachers, or complete a few modules with OU.

    However you hold a degree and I know there are problems with the TC and engineering degrees. There is a lengthy thread on here about it. I imagine that if you contact the TC and get your degree assessed they will tell you that you need more maths modules to be qualified in maths. Probably the ones I listed orginally. Of course they won't tell you if they will recognise your qualifications until you complete the modules.

    The PGDE then is another story. No point doing it unless you have a recognised subject. So I guess your first port of call is the TC and see what they have to say.

    When I was doing one of the modules I met a guy at one of my tutorials who had a degree in Information Technology from UL, he was in the process of completing the modules as recommended by the TC so he could teach maths. However I can't remember if he had done the PGDE or not. I would guess not as he would have only been qualified in IT, but stranger things have happened.


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    #25
    mimmi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mimmi


    TC has confirmed situation for engineering graduates after discussions with IEI.

    If your engineering degree is IEI 'recognised' you only need to do M208. This is assuming that your engineering degree is one that the TC has pinpointed in lacking the 'appropriate' content re maths.


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    #26
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    What is the exact title of your degree and where did you do it?

    I


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    #27
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    To be honest, I wouldn't like to call it either way. To get into a PGDE you must hold a degree, to be registered with the TC you must be a qualified teacher and have a degree which is recognised by the TC. So I am assuming that this route is only open to qualified teachers. Otherwise it would leave the way open for people to drop out of college after a year or two and then try to register as teachers, or complete a few modules with OU.

    However you hold a degree and I know there are problems with the TC and engineering degrees. There is a lengthy thread on here about it. I imagine that if you contact the TC and get your degree assessed they will tell you that you need more maths modules to be qualified in maths. Probably the ones I listed orginally. Of course they won't tell you if they will recognise your qualifications until you complete the modules.

    The PGDE then is another story. No point doing it unless you have a recognised subject. So I guess your first port of call is the TC and see what they have to say.

    When I was doing one of the modules I met a guy at one of my tutorials who had a degree in Information Technology from UL, he was in the process of completing the modules as recommended by the TC so he could teach maths. However I can't remember if he had done the PGDE or not. I would guess not as he would have only been qualified in IT, but stranger things have happened.


    I did my degree in Electronic Engineering and Computer Science and got into the Dip when only qualified to teach IT.....It was only a few years later that I did the Maths with the OU.....


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    #28
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    doc_17 wrote: »
    I did my degree in Electronic Engineering and Computer Science and got into the Dip when only qualified to teach IT.....It was only a few years later that I did the Maths with the OU.....

    Oh I didn't mean that he wouldn't have been accepted, just personally I thought it would be a waste of time only being qualified in IT as it is not an exam subject.


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    #29
    ndool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭ndool


    hi rainbowtrout,

    as part of my science degree i did maths in both first and second year. do you know if i would have to do all 3 OU modules? is it something worth enquiring about with the teaching council? (i've already completed the PGDE)

    thanks for all the great info on this! i had no idea anything had been formalised (i use that term loosely... ) by the teaching council.

    Also, i've done two stats modules (onein 3rd of undergrad and one in a postgrad)


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    #30
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,834 ✭✭✭doc_17


    ndool wrote: »
    hi rainbowtrout,

    as part of my science degree i did maths in both first and second year. do you know if i would have to do all 3 OU modules? is it something worth enquiring about with the teaching council? (i've already completed the PGDE)

    thanks for all the great info on this! i had no idea anything had been formalised (i use that term loosely... ) by the teaching council.

    Also, i've done two stats modules (onein 3rd of undergrad and one in a postgrad)

    There is no way for anyone on this forum to tell you definitively whether you only have to do 1 of those courses or all 3. The only way you will know for sure is to contact the TC, have all your course details (curriculum & syllabi) to hand and then they will tell you.

    having said that I can give you an idea what type of maths I had done prior to only having to complete M208 with the OU.

    I did maths in first and second year of my degree.....topics studied included Calulus (both strands), Stats, Algebra, Matrices, Complex Number, Sets, Trigonometry, Logs etc...

    most of that is covered in the 2 shorter courses but the M208 really takes it further.


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    #31
    ndool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭ndool


    thanks doc17. its definitely something i will contact the TC about.


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