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**GreeBo** · 13-06-2011, 13:58

hey all,

My 98 1.8 avensis is once again causing problems starting.

The latest trick is to fail to turnover properly, ie it turns over but the engine doesnt "catch" but then the starter stops turning as if the battery is dead.

The radio also looses all presets etc, exactly as if the battery is dead.
This could be happening repeatedly for 15 mins and then magically it will start first time as if nothing ever happened.

any ideas?
The battery is one I picked up in a scrap yard after the original one died so I dont "think" its that, surely if it was dead it would remain dead, especially after 10+ failed attempts of turning over the engine?

Cheers!

**biko** · 13-06-2011, 14:02

Second hand batts can be fickle and it could be that.
Try a few times with a good battery from another car?
If that works buy a new one, you don't want to be stranded somewhere rural.

**GreeBo** · 13-06-2011, 14:04

cheers
the battery was low on fluid so I topped it up the other day, would that make much of a difference?
since i topped it up I have driven Dublin - Dundalk and back and yet it still didnt start first time this morning.

I'm wondering if its the starter motor

Spunj · 13-06-2011, 23:13

Sounds like a bad earth to me. There's a large draw of power when you are turning the starter.

The first thing I'd check would be the earth straps on the gearbox etc. Take off, clean with sandpaper/steel wool and reattach.

Worth a shot anyway.

**GreeBo** · 14-06-2011, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunj

Sounds like a bad earth to me. There's a large draw of power when you are turning the starter.

The first thing I'd check would be the earth straps on the gearbox etc. Take off, clean with sandpaper/steel wool and reattach.

Worth a shot anyway.

cool will try that alright, any how would I recognise them? Are they just "bare" copper straps or something?

The Muppet · 14-06-2011, 11:19

I go for bad connection too, also check the connections on the battery.

Tea drinker · 14-06-2011, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreeBo

cool will try that alright, any how would I recognise them? Are they just "bare" copper straps or something?

Look for a very heavy wire bolted on to the engine, maybe on on the body andmaybe on the box.
If you look at the battery, you will see the earth terminal and follow the leads off that to see where it goes. A bit of copper grease IMHO would do no harm on the connections of straps after they were cleaned. The rough winters we have been having along with salt on the roads can cause problems with electrics.

listermint · 14-06-2011, 12:50

Battery in a scrapyard.....

Seriously?

Will you go but a new battery. christ man! My mates E36 had the same issue, sat in the garden for a week. new battery. Straight away problem solved.

Why would you bother with a second hand battery... beggars belief.

that battery is not holding the charge its ballixed

Spunj · 15-06-2011, 01:45

It may be the battery, but the fact that when it's running you can do a long journey points towards some joint that's unable to handle the massive amps that come with turning the engine at start.

I have a classic in the garage at the minute and I keep the earth lead off and loose because it's easier to start it when I need to shift it about, rather than pushing it.

A couple of days ago I had to get it out to get another car in and I couldn't start it.. same symptoms. Spent an age tracing wires, checking fuses and eventually remembered that the earth wasn't tightened on. All the electrics worked but when the draw of current required to start it occurred, it just failed.

As said above, a bit of copper grease (or even vaseline) on the main contacts will keep the water out.

Before you buy yet another battery, check the fat wires that lead off the negative (-) terminal, you will most likely find some crusty connection. Also as also suggested, check the actual join from the battery connection.

The connections are never raw copper, usually thick wires covered in black shielding.

johnayo · 15-06-2011, 01:59

Almost sure its the battery. Put a voltmeter across it and should have at least 12.4 to 12.5 volts.

Aero28 · 15-06-2011, 12:32

I've noticed the last few days when i go to start my car it stutters quite a bit. It struggles to start and it seems to get worse. Then last night after i came out of a shop and started it, an orange light has started to flash continuously on the dash. I've never seen that light appear on it before. It nearly looks like a "tap" icon. Anyone have any ideas what it could be.

I am gonna take it to the garage today to get it checked out, but was just looking for info on what it may be.

**GreeBo** · 15-06-2011, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunj

It may be the battery, but the fact that when it's running you can do a long journey points towards some joint that's unable to handle the massive amps that come with turning the engine at start.

I have a classic in the garage at the minute and I keep the earth lead off and loose because it's easier to start it when I need to shift it about, rather than pushing it.

A couple of days ago I had to get it out to get another car in and I couldn't start it.. same symptoms. Spent an age tracing wires, checking fuses and eventually remembered that the earth wasn't tightened on. All the electrics worked but when the draw of current required to start it occurred, it just failed.

As said above, a bit of copper grease (or even vaseline) on the main contacts will keep the water out.

Before you buy yet another battery, check the fat wires that lead off the negative (-) terminal, you will most likely find some crusty connection. Also as also suggested, check the actual join from the battery connection.

The connections are never raw copper, usually thick wires covered in black shielding.

Where is the earth on a battery? I see positive and negative

I did notice that one of the leads thats bolted to the side of the engine is covered in crap (the old battery was leaking so everything got a nice covering of that furry electrolyte ****e) so I will give that a go with the wire brush and see what happens!

@listermint : the car is limping along until I get a new one, €80 for a new battery for a couple of weeks isnt worth it imho.

no1beemerfan · 15-06-2011, 14:22

The negative is the earth! I second (or third at this stage!) the earth straps.

They usually look like this and are easy enough to get at. http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?pid=37191

**GreeBo** · 15-06-2011, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by no1beemerfan

The negative is the earth! I second (or third at this stage!) the earth straps.

Gurr stupid DC electricity

Will take a looksee this evening so!

Spunj · 16-06-2011, 01:32

Well, how did your looksee go. Visible fluff on terminals is a pretty sure sign that you have a bad corrosion problem.

Clean it up and you will be back to normal. The wires are fat for a reason, they have to carry a lot of amperage. Big lumps of corrosion indicate that your fat wires are now conducting like little tiny wires; that's not enough to give your starter what it needs.

Take the battery terminals off and do a polishing job on them, then follow them down and see if there is any discolouration in where they connect to the body/gearbox/engine. It almost always occurs on the negative/earth side.

Just think of it like a blocked pipe, if the current is blocked it it time to clean it out.

13-06-2011, 13:58	#1
GreeBo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 8,546 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Golf	Starting Problems... hey all, My 98 1.8 avensis is once again causing problems starting. The latest trick is to fail to turnover properly, ie it turns over but the engine doesnt "catch" but then the starter stops turning as if the battery is dead. The radio also looses all presets etc, exactly as if the battery is dead. This could be happening repeatedly for 15 mins and then magically it will start first time as if nothing ever happened. any ideas? The battery is one I picked up in a scrap yard after the original one died so I dont "think" its that, surely if it was dead it would remain dead, especially after 10+ failed attempts of turning over the engine? Cheers!

15-06-2011, 12:32	#11
Aero28 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 51 Adverts \| Friends	Slow starting & Orange flashing light on Opel Astra I've noticed the last few days when i go to start my car it stutters quite a bit. It struggles to start and it seems to get worse. Then last night after i came out of a shop and started it, an orange light has started to flash continuously on the dash. I've never seen that light appear on it before. It nearly looks like a "tap" icon. Anyone have any ideas what it could be. I am gonna take it to the garage today to get it checked out, but was just looking for info on what it may be.

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13-06-2011, 14:02	#2
biko Percolator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Galway City Posts: 37,312 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Blogs / Wikis / Social Networks, Galway City, Nordic, West, Motoring	Second hand batts can be fickle and it could be that. Try a few times with a good battery from another car? If that works buy a new one, you don't want to be stranded somewhere rural.

13-06-2011, 14:04	#3
GreeBo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 8,546 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Golf	cheers the battery was low on fluid so I topped it up the other day, would that make much of a difference? since i topped it up I have driven Dublin - Dundalk and back and yet it still didnt start first time this morning. I'm wondering if its the starter motor

13-06-2011, 23:13	#4
Spunj Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brainworms? Posts: 408 Adverts \| Friends	Sounds like a bad earth to me. There's a large draw of power when you are turning the starter. The first thing I'd check would be the earth straps on the gearbox etc. Take off, clean with sandpaper/steel wool and reattach. Worth a shot anyway.

14-06-2011, 11:19	#6
The Muppet Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 11,465 Adverts \| Friends	I go for bad connection too, also check the connections on the battery.

14-06-2011, 12:50	#8
listermint Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 5,717 Adverts \| Friends	Battery in a scrapyard..... Seriously? Will you go but a new battery. christ man! My mates E36 had the same issue, sat in the garden for a week. new battery. Straight away problem solved. Why would you bother with a second hand battery... beggars belief. that battery is not holding the charge its ballixed

15-06-2011, 01:45	#9
Spunj Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brainworms? Posts: 408 Adverts \| Friends	It may be the battery, but the fact that when it's running you can do a long journey points towards some joint that's unable to handle the massive amps that come with turning the engine at start. I have a classic in the garage at the minute and I keep the earth lead off and loose because it's easier to start it when I need to shift it about, rather than pushing it. A couple of days ago I had to get it out to get another car in and I couldn't start it.. same symptoms. Spent an age tracing wires, checking fuses and eventually remembered that the earth wasn't tightened on. All the electrics worked but when the draw of current required to start it occurred, it just failed. As said above, a bit of copper grease (or even vaseline) on the main contacts will keep the water out. Before you buy yet another battery, check the fat wires that lead off the negative (-) terminal, you will most likely find some crusty connection. Also as also suggested, check the actual join from the battery connection. The connections are never raw copper, usually thick wires covered in black shielding.

15-06-2011, 01:59	#10
johnayo Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,061 Adverts \| Friends	Almost sure its the battery. Put a voltmeter across it and should have at least 12.4 to 12.5 volts.

15-06-2011, 14:22	#13
no1beemerfan Closed Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,708 Adverts \| Friends	The negative is the earth! I second (or third at this stage!) the earth straps. They usually look like this and are easy enough to get at. http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?pid=37191

16-06-2011, 01:32	#15
Spunj Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brainworms? Posts: 408 Adverts \| Friends	Well, how did your looksee go. Visible fluff on terminals is a pretty sure sign that you have a bad corrosion problem. Clean it up and you will be back to normal. The wires are fat for a reason, they have to carry a lot of amperage. Big lumps of corrosion indicate that your fat wires are now conducting like little tiny wires; that's not enough to give your starter what it needs. Take the battery terminals off and do a polishing job on them, then follow them down and see if there is any discolouration in where they connect to the body/gearbox/engine. It almost always occurs on the negative/earth side. Just think of it like a blocked pipe, if the current is blocked it it time to clean it out.