[hinault]

Originally Posted by AlekSmart

It really is incredible how our Governments continually shirk the hard decisions...

First we had Mr Bruton announcing how he wanted to reduce the wage earning capacity of the lower income sector,ie: those covered by JLC's or other collective agreements....now we have this lad Hogan warning largely the same grouping that the Gubbermint wants to take more money offa them for "services"...whatever these may be ?

It was left to Ms Burton to keep the flag flying for the poor oul "underprivileged" who,naturally enough,in a caring society will be spared the indignity of having to pay for stuff...such as Public Transport,Telephone Rental,Accomodation Rental....etc etc etc....

If the books were skewed when this coalition took over,it's looking as if they'll be roasted by the time they leave !!!!

And the CP deal remains in situ and untouched.

We really are in a banana republic.

The biggest spending departments social welfare and health.

[blindjustice]

Originally Posted by ardmacha

Rates were based on the size of your house. It is not clear that this will be based on anything logical at all.

As for exemptions, I think everyone should pay this. It is proper for all citizens to contribute and this might be easier than cutting welfare rates.

basing things on house size is wrong too, we have the smallest sq footage houses in the OECD bar the UK and the UK is densely populated - think London and the South East of England. We dont need more discouragement to build decent sized properties.

In an ideal world we would of told the banks to take a run and jump and any money spent on bailouts would have been on looking after citizens deposits up to the deposit guarantee. Then we would have had a firesale of properties allowing people to buy houses and apartments beside each other where walls could be knocked through to make decent sized properties.

We have far far too many 1 bed apartments for the least densely populated country in Europe.

Its really time we started protesting and showing that we dont want to pay for these debts - unless of course people do? Well why else arent people protesting??!?

[DoesNotCompute]

Originally Posted by ardmacha

Rates were based on the size of your house. It is not clear that this will be based on anything logical at all.

This cleverly named "household charge" is an interim measure until the govt can get around to establishing a land registry of sorts that includes details of the size of everyone's house. At that point it will be rates.

[JohnMarston]

Its a tax for what? Living in your own house? The council don't do sh*t for us. The only thing that they can charge me for is the water, which im sure are getting their own rates in the next few years

[Tora Bora]

Originally Posted by hinault

And the CP deal remains in situ and untouched.

We really are in a banana republic.

The biggest spending departments social welfare and health.

And Brendan Howlin, says today the CP deal, is delivering the required savings.
See Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...298207199.html


Separately yesterday, the Minister forecast the forthcoming first review of the Croke Park agreement on public service pay and reform would be positive.
“There have already been real and significant examples of change under the Croke Park agreement, such as the transfer of the community welfare service to the Department of Social Protection.
“The implementation body under the agreement will report in a few weeks, and I am confident that it will show we are on the right track in terms of savings in the pay bill and the ongoing delivery of services with fewer staff.”
The implementation group’s report, which is scheduled to be given to the Department of Finance before the end of the week, is likely to state that savings of close to €300 million have been realised under the deal.
The local authority sector has claimed savings of about €160 million, while the health sector has said it produced savings of some €100 million.

[Zubeneschamali]

Originally Posted by DoesNotCompute

At that point it will be rates.

Well, yes. Rates should never have been abolished, it was a daft vote-buying Fianna Fáil stunt.

[irishguy]

I am a house owner and I actually agree with property/water tax In Principle. A couple of things need to be considered:
1. People who provide there own water/local services through a management company should be charged a lower rate
2. There needs to be transparent and efficient use of the money made
3. Everyone should pay but at different rates if you really can't afford it
4. Local authority's should be made way more efficient to ensure these rates are kept as low as possible, this would require ~100% productivity increase (by improved work praticies/large pay cuts/outsourcing)

[Jaysoose]

So basically normal working people are getting the shaft again while the "underpriviliged" "long term unemployed" and "people in mortgage diffculties" will most likely be exempt when do the paye workers stand up and say enough is enough?

If your bringing in the charge then everybody should pay regardless.

And as somebody that pays management fees while the local authority happily ignores the existent of my estate i feel there is something fundamentaly wrong with asking people to pay for "the provision of local services" when i dont get any.

[Rookster]

The Brits never accepted the Poll tax but I have a feeling we will accept anything that is thrown at us as we are a cowardly nation when it comes to protesting or complaining about issues.

Also there is a rumour from Govt sources that there will be some full/partial exemption for Public Servants from the new charge. Is this true?

[DoesNotCompute]

Originally Posted by Rookster

Also there is a rumour from Govt sources that there will be some full/partial exemption for Public Servants from the new charge. Is this true?

I would doubt it, that sounds like more anti-PS bullsh*t scaremongering. Where is this rumour originating from? Do you have any reliable sources (i.e. news articles, etc)?

Given the negative sentiments the public feel towards public and civil servant's pay and work conditions, I doubt Labour/Fine Gael would shoot themselves in the foot by granting exemptions to public/civil servants.

Here in the UK, Council Tax (the equivalent of this proposed Property Tax) reductions (not exemptions) apply in the following cases:

Originally Posted by http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/YourlocalcouncilandCouncilTax/CouncilTax/DG_10037422

•the property is empty
•only one adult lives there
•you are disabled
•you are a student
•you are a student nurse

EDIT: There's also a "Council Tax Benefit", which would apply to people on low incomes. If the property is not your main home, you may get a discount. Certain properties are exempt altogether, and foreign diplomats and Embassy/Consular technical/administrative staff posted to the UK are exempt completely. There's also some sort of scheme to allow disabled people to pay less on the basis that they live in a larger property than they would have needed if they were not disabled.

[dan_d]

I do not understand this.I just don't.

They want to charge us for using water. From next year, (is that right?) a standing charge. We pay for ESB/Gas/Oil ourselves. Right now, my bin service is collected by a private company because they're cheaper. Prior to that,we paid the county council 110eur a year, plus the bin tags, for refuse collection.

Wtf is this for? Is this on top of all that?? What services? Fixing the broken water mains that their men didn't bury deep enough in the first place? (no, wait - the water charges should cover that). Providing street lights - oh hang on, the ESB/Airtricity do that. Street cleaning? Well they do that in some estates only, about once a week. Grass cutting - they hardly do that anymore in the name of "biodiversity".

So what? And if you live in an estate with a management company that you pay hefty fees to, how does that work? And given that builders have to pay a fee to the council when they build the estate to cover things like building footpaths and installing lights...how is this supposed to work???

I'm getting all worked up about it!!! Seriously though, why don't they just call it like it bloody well is. We have no money, we need to raise some, everyone hand over a couple of hundred each for the next 5 years or so.

On a side note about the "savings" implemented by the CPD...I haven't seen any changes in how Gov Depts do business or operate, so it just goes to show you how much wastage there is in there if they can save that much money, yet nothing appears to change.....

(end of rant, back on topic...)

[Hoffmans]

i propose a tax on bullsh*t
would raise a billion a year from lenister house alone....

[ardmacha]

the ESB/Airtricity do that.

you know perfectly well that the ESB do not pay for street lights

as for management companies, I don;t see why charges should not be adjusted to reflect these.

[dan_d]

They provide the electricity to them. And given that the ESB have been working weekends in my town of late, taking down old poles and replacing them with new ones, I'd imagine that they do. As far as I'm aware, the contract has been transferred to Airtricity of late. The Council would, I imagine, have to pay the bills for that. Any construction project that I've worked on in the city centre, we (as the contractor/developer) put in the ductwork and connect the ducts from the street light locations to the electricity supply. Following which, the ESB/Council come along and install the lights and the ESB connect the power. Actually, now that I think of it, in one development, we actually installed the ductwork and the light posts - the ESB switched them on.

So I do know perfectly well....

As I said, I'd imagine that some if not all of the bill comes back to the Council, who have a contract with the ESB. But I'm not entirely sure of that. It may be that the ESB/Airtricity has a contract with the State to provide street lighting, as there are regulations about that, and the Councils ensure upkeep of the street lights.

[pog it]

I will not pay. I would rather go to jail than pay this to cover the debts of the banks. Please, people, there is a protest in July organised by Richard Boyd Barrett, and there well be more besides.

Please please turn out at them. It is our ONLY way to get justice. There is now no other way.