[PDN]

Originally Posted by marienbad

That my be true right now PDN, and it is an interesting discussion. I would hazard a guess though that the tide is against you in that the more developed a society is the more quickly they fall away from their faith.

I wasn't discussing people falling away from their faith. I was discussing atheism.

More developed countries tend to be less authoritarian. Therefore I would expect a greater diversity of options to be manifested. This is one reason why Christianity (and particularly the forms of it that depend on adult decision making) grows rapidly in countries that are traditionally non-Christian and then become more developed.

[PDN]

Originally Posted by old hippy

And who would these be? Serious question.

God, as in Yahweh, Creator of heaven and earth.

And now, if you wish, you can make one of your unsupported statements of opinion that you are prone to - to the effect that you think my God is fictional (just in case you think that we might need that explaining to us, it not being immediately apparent with you being an atheist).

[marienbad]

Originally Posted by PDN

I wasn't discussing people falling away from their faith. I was discussing atheism.

More developed countries tend to be less authoritarian. Therefore I would expect a greater diversity of options to be manifested. This is one reason why Christianity (and particularly the forms of it that depend on adult decision making) grows rapidly in countries that are traditionally non-Christian and then become more developed.

and then fall away ? as I say the tide is moving out for you. We appear to be in agreement.

[Ciaran0]

What is the percentage of atheists in Ireland at the moment?

[old hippy]

Originally Posted by PDN

God, as in Yahweh, Creator of heaven and earth.

And now, if you wish, you can make one of your unsupported statements of opinion that you are prone to - to the effect that you think my God is fictional (just in case you think that we might need that explaining to us, it not being immediately apparent with you being an atheist).

Like one of your unsupported statements that your fictional deity created an non existent realm and this planet?

Like shooting fish in a barrel, you make it so easy

[PDN]

Originally Posted by marienbad

and then fall away ? as I say the tide is moving out for you. We appear to be in agreement.

Not at all. I look at demographics and see the following:

Christianity (as a generic whole) is increasing numerically but remaining static as a percentage of world population.

The brand of Christianity to which I belong (Pentecostal/Charismatic) has increased from a handful of people 110 years ago to where it now embraces approximately 10% of the world's population.

Over the Twentieth Century, Atheism increased dramatically but has considerably declined numerically since 1980.

So, no, I don't think the tide is moving out for me at all.

In fact, I think we have much more in common than you think. Atheist numbers overall have declined, but the variety of atheism that you presumably espouse (voluntary rather than coerced) has probably increased.

Christian numbers overall are increasing (if remaining flat as a percentage of world population) but the variety of Christianity that I espouse is increasing dramatically.

The numbers of Catholics in Ireland are declining, and the numbers of atheists in Ireland are increasing - which you presumably think is a good thing.


The numbers of Catholics in Ireland are declining, and the numbers of Pentecostals in Ireland are increasing - which I think is a good thing.

So the direction of the tide is looking pretty good from where I'm standing.

[Ciaran0]

Originally Posted by old hippy

Like one of your unsupported statements that your fictional deity created an non existent realm and this planet?

Like shooting fish in a barrel, you make it so easy

Of course he's going to say that the burden of proof is on you because you're in his forum.

[old hippy]

Originally Posted by PDN

Not at all. I look at demographics and see the following:

Christianity (as a generic whole) is increasing numerically but remaining static as a percentage of world population.

The brand of Christianity to which I belong (Pentecostal/Charismatic) has increased from a handful of people 110 years ago to where it now embraces approximately 10% of the world's population.

Over the Twentieth Century, Atheism increased dramatically but has considerably declined numerically since 1980.

So, no, I don't think the tide is moving out for me at all.

In fact, I think we have much more in common than you think. Atheist numbers overall have declined, but the variety of atheism that you presumably espouse (voluntary rather than coerced) has probably increased.

Christian numbers overall are increasing (if remaining flat as a percentage of world population) but the variety of Christianity that I espouse is increasing dramatically.

The numbers of Catholics in Ireland are declining, and the numbers of atheists in Ireland are increasing - which you presumably think is a good thing.


The numbers of Catholics in Ireland are declining, and the numbers of Pentecostals in Ireland are increasing - which I think is a good thing.

So the direction of the tide is looking pretty good from where I'm standing.

A mere dribble, which hopefuly will evaporate come the enlightenment.

[PDN]

Originally Posted by Ciaran0

What is the percentage of atheists in Ireland at the moment?

No idea. I would rather expect you to be the one to research that.

Originally Posted by Old Hippy

Like one of your unsupported statements that your fictional deity created an non existent realm and this planet?

I don't interject with unsupported assertions. I answered a question. It's hardly my problem that you are part of a minority group that disagrees with me.

Can we do better than this rather puerile soapboxing?

[old hippy]

Originally Posted by PDN

No idea. I would rather expect you to be the one to research that.


I don't interject with unsupported assertions. I answered a question. It's hardly my problem that you are part of a minority group that disagrees with me.

Can we do better than this rather puerile soapboxing?

Don't you mean puritanical?

I lost a good friend to the Pentecostals, btw.

[PDN]

Originally Posted by old hippy

A mere dribble, which hopefuly will evaporate come the enlightenment.

A mere dribble that has thousands of people packing into buildings every Sunday. Look, I'll come back when you actually have something to discuss rather than throwing jibes about. If I want that I'll visit After Hours.

[old hippy]

Originally Posted by PDN

A mere dribble that has thousands of people packing into buildings every Sunday. Look, I'll come back when you actually have something to discuss rather than throwing jibes about. If I want that I'll visit After Hours.

Let's discuss people with their heads up their butts, how about that?

What do your friends get from packing into these alleged buildings?

[Cato Maior]

Originally Posted by PDN

A mere dribble that has thousands of people packing into buildings every Sunday. Look, I'll come back when you actually have something to discuss rather than throwing jibes about. If I want that I'll visit After Hours.

I think that there will always be a significant number of people who will have religious beliefs, and perhaps a majority will believe in god. None of that though goes towards the truth or falsity of religious claims.

I think that atheists who think that religion is simply going to die off or fall to insignificant numbers are somewhat failing to take into account human nature. Some people will always need something like religion to deal with the (what at least they would see) as the vicissitudes of life.

I agree with you on the jibes thing. The 'sky fairy' stuff is touch juvenile and really does little for the debate. It only really works on people on the verge of dis-belief and not on those who believe that they have solid rational grounds to believe what they do. Russell's Teapot it ain't.

[old hippy]

Originally Posted by Cato Maior

I think that there will always be a significant number of people who will have religious beliefs, and perhaps a majority will believe in god. None of that though goes towards the truth or falsity of religious claims.

I think that atheists who think that religion is simply going to die off or fall to insignificant numbers are somewhat failing to take into account human nature. Some people will always need something like religion to deal with the (what at least they would see) as the vicissitudes of life.

I agree with you on the jibes thing. The 'sky fairy' stuff is touch juvenile and really does little for the debate. It only really works on people on the verge of dis-belief and not on those who believe that they have solid rational grounds to believe what they do. Russell's Teapot it ain't.

Pff, he started it

[Cato Maior]

Originally Posted by old hippy

Pff, he started it

I tend to find that one is better advised not to allow the low standards of others to determine the standards by which one operates.