[unit 1]

Originally Posted by thebman

Yes I don't buy the I'm not FF but... type posts.

I won't be voting FF or FG next election if FG don't get their act together.

Doesn't leave much options but I'm not going to vote for people who don't deliver on manifestos even if I have to work my way through the lot. This most likely makes me a SF voter next time if existing parties refuse to deliver the reforms they both promise (yes FF in opposition are promising reforms and failing horribly too).

Should add I'm not the only one I know with this opinion.

But surely you realise that NO party ever fulfills its election promises, even more so in recessionary times. Anybody who believed any of these so called election promises (which always seem to be vague) were naieve tbh. Enda Kennys only goal was to get elected and thats it.
Once in power (unfortunetly a coalition) they will then do what they see fit, except this time they are hamstrung by the bailout deal. The simple truth that people still do not seem to understand is that austerity is the order of the day, and keeping our heads down, unlike Greece, is actually part of their plan.
Once 2013 arrives and the new rules for dealing with bank debts are in place then they will make their move.
Untill then we are funded by the bailout and contrary to what the ps bashers keep on about, the deficit, we will turn it around if we, and the government hold our nerve.
While I suspect that this is their actual gameplan, no government would admit to anything like this, just like no government would ever admit to planning a devaluation, remember that. It's not pleasant, it's not fair, it's not very "open and transparent", but it's not impossible, and I think in the end Enda Kenny just might work out being one of our best leaders ever, we just won't realise it till some time after the fact.

[EggsAckley]

I thought Brendan Grace James Reilly's performance on the Frontline last night was pretty impressive. He answered every question convincingly and without evasion, seems to have vision and radical plans which the experts in the audience were willing to go along with, certainly no one rubbished them, as well as pragmatism in more immediate problems like the filling non consultant roles . One junior doctor contrasted the sense of despair under Harney with a new found hope under Reilly.
Prior to the election I had him down as all huff and bluster but now I'm beginning to think he may turn out one of the top performers of this cabinet

[MackDaddi]

Originally Posted by EggsAckley

I thought Brendan Grace James Reilly's performance on the Frontline last night was pretty impressive......Prior to the election I had him down as all huff and bluster but now I'm beginning to think he may turn out one of the top performers of this cabinet

I'd have to agree with this, i had always thought he was a strong opposition spokesperson on health who would make a good minister, and im happy to see him getting a shot. The man clearly has the will to straighten out the health service, and seems to be a bit more hands on and compassionate than his evil cow of a predecessor ever was. The biggest question however, is not whether he wants to effect change, it's whether the exchequer and the public sector unions will let him.

The health service in this country is just plain broken. I have seen and heard of Dickensian conditions in some of our major public hospitals recently. Mismanagement and bloated levels of staffing in the wrong areas and understaffing in others are to blame. Flexibility and agility are crucial to a company or organisation the size of the health service, and if you don't have them the problem just keeps getting worse and more and more expensive. Unfortunately, if the problem of the overbloated, inefficient health service is ever to be fixed, then the concept of flexibility of working arrangements will have to be re-introduced to it's workplace environment, and a lot of vested interests in management and staffing will have to be made a lot less comfortable. People will have to be laid off from their jobs or re-trained and re-deployed. Working arrangements, rates, contracts, and terms and conditions will all have to be looked at, and the culture of entitlement will have to go out the window. All of this will be a huge fight to achieve, based on the entrenched position of some union officials at the moment.

That's the real challenge Reilly has in front of him. Changing the culture of "looking after number 1" that's got us where we are. Good luck to him with it. Health has been a poisoned chalice in Irish politics for years, i would like to see him staying the course and effecting real change.

And LOL @ Brendan Grace. Minister "Bottler" is what i'll be calling him from now on.

[thebman]

Originally Posted by unit 1

But surely you realise that NO party ever fulfills its election promises, even more so in recessionary times. Anybody who believed any of these so called election promises (which always seem to be vague) were naieve tbh. Enda Kennys only goal was to get elected and thats it.
Once in power (unfortunetly a coalition) they will then do what they see fit, except this time they are hamstrung by the bailout deal. The simple truth that people still do not seem to understand is that austerity is the order of the day, and keeping our heads down, unlike Greece, is actually part of their plan.
Once 2013 arrives and the new rules for dealing with bank debts are in place then they will make their move.
Untill then we are funded by the bailout and contrary to what the ps bashers keep on about, the deficit, we will turn it around if we, and the government hold our nerve.
While I suspect that this is their actual gameplan, no government would admit to anything like this, just like no government would ever admit to planning a devaluation, remember that. It's not pleasant, it's not fair, it's not very "open and transparent", but it's not impossible, and I think in the end Enda Kenny just might work out being one of our best leaders ever, we just won't realise it till some time after the fact.

Such logic that politicians will always lie is why we have lying politicians.

If we hold them to account like dogs, they will learn like dogs. Time to train Irish politicans to deliver on what they promise or not to promise it.

[Chucky the tree]

Originally Posted by thebman

Such logic that politicians will always lie is why we have lying politicians.

If we hold them to account like dogs, they will learn like dogs. Time to train Irish politicans to deliver on what they promise or not to promise it.

The reason politicians/political parties lie is to get elected, if they didn't lie they wouldn't get elected. It's like the chicken and egg story really. For them ost part the electorate are far to simple to be told the truth and then do what's right.

[thebman]

Originally Posted by Chucky the tree

The reason politicians/political parties lie is to get elected, if they didn't lie they wouldn't get elected. It's like the chicken and egg story really. For them ost part the electorate are far to simple to be told the truth and then do what's right.

Right so your unwilling to hold politicians to what they say before an election which is ridiculous as you can't vote for anybody if they are presenting you with fairy tale policies.

And hell with the last one your just saying we are too stupid to even try to have a functioning democracy.

Most people are smart enough to be told the truth and do what is right IMO but in Ireland, it hasn't been tried yet so how would we know?

People voted for FG to change and make cuts which was bad for them. If they really wanted to be clueless and vote for fairy tales they would have voted for the SWP or United Left Alliance etc...

[Chucky the tree]

Originally Posted by thebman

Right so your unwilling to hold politicians to what they say before an election which is ridiculous as you can't vote for anybody if they are presenting you with fairy tale policies.

And hell with the last one your just saying we are too stupid to even try to have a functioning democracy.

Most people are smart enough to be told the truth and do what is right IMO but in Ireland, it hasn't been tried yet so how would we know?

People voted for FG to change and make cuts which was bad for them. If they really wanted to be clueless and vote for fairy tales they would have voted for the SWP or United Left Alliance etc...

Most people aren't smart enough, that's nearly every other political party in every other country is the same. Look at the Lib Dems in England, didn't exactly honour there situation.

People who voted for FG wanted cuts to the public sector, so I'd say not many public sector vote for FG and voted for Labour instead, which is most likely why FG didn't get a full majority. Most people who voted for Fine Gael would have been private sector middle and upper class who didn't want a increase in income tax or a third level of income tax like Labour were proposing. Obviously there will be expections to this but for the majority it is fairly accurate.

[thebman]

Originally Posted by Chucky the tree

Most people aren't smart enough, that's nearly every other political party in every other country is the same. Look at the Lib Dems in England, didn't exactly honour there situation.

People who voted for FG wanted cuts to the public sector, so I'd say not many public sector vote for FG and voted for Labour instead, which is most likely why FG didn't get a full majority. Most people who voted for Fine Gael would have been private sector middle and upper class who didn't want a increase in income tax or a third level of income tax like Labour were proposing. Obviously there will be expections to this but for the majority it is fairly accurate.

Well true but the UK has something in common with the Irish in that it is a coalition at the moment. I think that makes lying and blaming it on the coalition partner easier similar to what we have seen in Ireland with FF demolishing their coalition partners for the past 10 years and it could happen Labour now too.

[Malpaisian]

Originally Posted by MackDaddi

... over the last several weeks their election manifesto has begun to be seen more and more as having been wishful thinking in comparison to the reality of what they can acomplish in office.

"Wishful thinking" .... That's such a quaint name for bare-faced lies!

[Slydice]

Originally Posted by Slydice

have any bankers been put in jail?

hmmm, I still haven't seen any bankers put in jail

I've seen articles saying that bertie ahern is still gauging money out of the taxpayer though

[kiermul]

and you wont see any either

[Slydice]

Originally Posted by kiermul

and you wont see any either

It's certainly looking that way.

Iceland currently have their former prime minister on trial and have already jailed bankers.

We haven't jailed anyone (well... apart from the regulars and probably a rise in people not being able to afford TV licenses)

[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by Chucky the tree

For the most part the electorate are far to simple to be told the truth and then do what's right.

As one of the electorate, I find that statement insulting.

And if we're talking about "what's right", even if I were useless at it I would be a million times better at it than most politicians.

Particular since one of the things that's "right" to do is to be honest and work to the best of your ability at your job, not lie to get elected and then proceed to condone corruption and line your own pockets.

[Slydice]

Originally Posted by Slydice

It's certainly looking that way.

Iceland currently have their former prime minister on trial and have already jailed bankers.

We haven't jailed anyone (well... apart from the regulars and probably a rise in people not being able to afford TV licenses)

Hmmm...

saw a tweet there about how a woman is in jail three weeks over not letting the ESB onto her land...

but that no banker has gone to jail yet

[Slydice]

Jaysus, just remembered this thread when I read this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056572905

It's been a year now and no banker/politician behind bars.

Originally Posted by CB19Kevo

6 years jail for garlic scam
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0309/begleyp.html

''The head of Ireland's largest fruit and vegetable producers has been jailed for six years for a €1.6m scam involving the importation of garlic.
Paul Begley, 46, avoided paying customs duty on over 1,000 tonnes of garlic from China by having them labelled as apples.

with a heavily thanked reply saying:

Originally Posted by mikom

And still not one banker jailed........