[Humans eh!]

One of the most politicised marches in years will take place in London today. Organised by the Trade Unions in a strange move Labour leader Ed Milliband will address the crowds in Hyde Park to promote his slow but deep style of cuts as opposed to the slash and burn Tory version.

With the anger about deep cuts in public spending and David Cameron's expensive War in Libya could we see a Tahrir Square style attempted occupation of central London as is planned?
The police have been criticised for heavy handed crowd control on previous occasions and seem to be playing down their approach to this one. There are real feelings of anger over high earner tax loophole evasion while education and care budgets are slashed. Philip Green seems to be a particular target of anger see here.

Could this turn nasty and change the political landscape of Britain or just be another jolly outing for the anarchists and riot police?

[Denerick]

I find the placards saying 'NO CUTS' to be both amusing and extraordinary. Do these people live in a fantasy world? There certainly is a case that the coalition is cutting too fast and too deep, but these people want to keep moving on like the recession never happened and the deficit didn't exist.

[Humans eh!]

I think its the distribution of the cuts thats the issue, and the parties once again polarising, Conservative with the rich & Labour with the unions. Many people feel that the elite who caused such a financial mess are being let off with tax breaks while the poor bear the brunt of cuts and finance military action which is very expensive.
Philip Green who is the new poster child for the fat cat stereotype has evaded literally Billions in tax while front line services (including police budgets) have been severely compromised. Bank bonuses still being paid after their rescue has angered many people who don't know or care about finance but do care about perceived equality and justice.

I think it is fascinating to see populations stand up and be counted. I also believe that the Middle East uprisings will be an inspiration for hard liners who never believed before that they could really change anything by protesting/rioting.
Interesting times ahead.

[silverharp]

"cuts deniers" come across as head in the sand types that just want their pesonal gov. ATM to keeping supplying goodies, anybody but me is hardly a way for an economy to run. The BBC did a piece yesterday where kids of RAF employees were rolled out to say why their base shouldnt be closed

[whoopdedoo]

fair played to them, they're not afraid to get stuck in and make themselves heard in the uk. hope it goes all Tarhir sq and it starts here shortly afterwards!!

[GSF]

Originally Posted by Humans eh!

With the anger about deep cuts in public spending and David Cameron's expensive War in Libya could we see a Tahrir Square style attempted occupation of central London as is planned?

So they are opposed to supporting the toppling of Gadaffi [unelected] but want to overturn a legitimately elected government. Theres perverse logic at work!

[ilovesleep]

Originally Posted by Humans eh!

I think its the distribution of the cuts thats the issue, and the parties once again polarising, Conservative with the rich & Labour with the unions. Many people feel that the elite who caused such a financial mess are being let off with tax breaks while the poor bear the brunt of cuts and finance military action which is very expensive.
Philip Green who is the new poster child for the fat cat stereotype has evaded literally Billions in tax while front line services (including police budgets) have been severely compromised. Bank bonuses still being paid after their rescue has angered many people who don't know or care about finance but do care about perceived equality and justice.

Much like our own country except here people will lie down and take it all. Fair play to them out protesting. They are willing to stand up and be heard. Ireland has a bunch of lazy asses.

[Humans eh!]

Originally Posted by GSF

So they are opposed to supporting the toppling of Gadaffi [unelected] but want to overturn a legitimately elected government. Theres perverse logic at work!

Yes, logic has nothing to do with it, the problem lies in the fact that people are waking up to the fact that motivations for Government actions are usually done for reasons other than political idealism or concern for human rights. I don't think that they are opposed to Gadaffi's toppling, but the reasons behind it.

Its simply that people don't have faith in the political system anymore. All they see is their legitimately elected government seemingly acting in ways that have no apparent benefit to the greater population. It would suit the west (from an oil perspective) to have Gadaffi in power, after all he was the new darling of the west up till recently. People are cynical of their government acting on Human Rights issues because of all the issues that it ignores because big business has no interest in the area. Thats IMHO what the issue is, it is cynicism that drives these protests not logic .

[GSF]

Originally Posted by Humans eh!

I don't think that they are opposed to Gadaffi's toppling, but the reasons behind it.

So they think the west are supporting Gadaffi's toppling for ulterior motives

Originally Posted by Humans eh!

It would suit the west (from an oil perspective) to have Gadaffi in power.

But the west would prefer Gadaffi to stay.




So there may be some confused people, some idealists, some self haters and many cynics. What a wonderful coalition.

[Humans eh!]

Governments have a myriad of reasons for doing everything. The public are often perplexed by decisions made for seemingly conflicting or nonsensical motives. You can be sure though that there are reasons for everything and people know that they are only told what the media reports or assumes to be the facts. The true motivations are often hidden and will not become apparent for many years.

But thats aside from this issue. The problem with events in North Africa are the amount of unknowns involved, events are moving so fast that governments are having a hard time reading the ever changing political landscape and the emergence of a silent radical Islamic powerhouse across the Arab world has made people very nervous but the man on the street is really more concerned with his own community and his own future.

What we see is protests not about any single issue or ideal per say but simply an expression of an unstructured general unhappiness of sections of the population ( via protesting groups) with the powers that be. This could be perceived as a time of weakness of the government in Britain and people may wish to strike a timely blow just to see what gives. There is a lot of misguided and misdirected anger in England and an issue like the "No Cuts" protest movement could just be a conduit to release that anger.

I hope it is peaceful and instead of rioting people are encouraged to become part of a movement for change and a fairer society, by political and peaceful means (Jaysus I sound like Cameron there!) but I doubt it.
I'm all for striking a blow to rattle the establishment but I fear that it will only encourage a more hardline stance by the police and curb civil freedoms even more.

[Denerick]

Originally Posted by ilovesleep

Much like our own country except here people will lie down and take it all. Fair play to them out protesting. They are willing to stand up and be heard. Ireland has a bunch of lazy asses.

This is an argument that doesn't wash, frankly. At the moment the German taxpayer is paying the wages of public sector workers here in Ireland; even though the average public sector work is paid far better than the average German one.

You can stand up and be heard all you want, but someone has to do the accountancy. And live in the real world.

[muletide]

Originally Posted by ilovesleep

Much like our own country except here people will lie down and take it all. Fair play to them out protesting. They are willing to stand up and be heard. Ireland has a bunch of lazy asses.

Sorry but am going to have to pull you up here.

UK - population 60 million odd - 250,000 march

ROI - population 4 million odd - therefore an equivalent march would have to be approx 16,000

We have seen many marches of plus 16,000 people in Ireland over the last few years.

But I suppose it is much easier just to throw out the old "Irish take it lying down" sh1te that everyone else says, than to actually consider the facts and figures involved

[phosphate]

Originally Posted by Denerick

I find the placards saying 'NO CUTS' to be both amusing and extraordinary. Do these people live in a fantasy world? There certainly is a case that the coalition is cutting too fast and too deep, but these people want to keep moving on like the recession never happened and the deficit didn't exist.

I agree my good minion, but look at the UK or US and look at the protests against cuts there.

How can the political establishment make a case for cuts while they blow up bombs worth hundreds of millions in dollars?

In our case, we're bailing out bond holders overseas.

Sure, cut away, bail out banks and bomb arabs overseas..just expect your own people to relinquish smashing the entire establishment to bits.

I'll be there fighting ignorant servile scum.

We'll write our own history, you'll just read about it.

[Denerick]

Originally Posted by phosphate

I agree my good minion, but look at the UK or US and look at the protests against cuts there.

How can the political establishment make a case for cuts while they blow up bombs worth hundreds of millions in dollars?

In our case, we're bailing out bond holders overseas.

Sure, cut away, bail out banks and bomb arabs overseas..just expect your own people to relinquish smashing the entire establishment to bits.

I'll be there fighting ignorant servile scum.

We'll write our own history, you'll just read about it.

BEHOLD! The New Socrates doth walk among us.

[phosphate]

what's funnier is you'll be in here bitchin about how stupid people are for protesting when it's your own neck on the line.

i have no problem with austerity as you know denerick.
it's quite a feeling to know people are worse off than i am..it gives me great joy.