[YouWantWhat]

Does anyone know if there is a legal minimum ceiling height in a house. My understanding is there there is not, just a recommended height of 2.4m, which is in the building regs. I know in the UK the legal requirement has been removed ( http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/featur...ding-your-home ). Whats happens if you end up with a ceilng height of say 2.35m? (Any references to facts and regs. welcome).

[Mellor]

The building regs are law, not recomendations.

2400mm is the legal min from part F

[YouWantWhat]

TGD F "suggests" a minimum height of 2.4m.

I've just contacted a building control officer for clarification and he said that the 2.4m minimum height restriction was removed in 2005, and is not now enforceable.

[sydthebeat]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

TGD F "suggests" a minimum height of 2.4m.

I've just contacted a building control officer for clarification and he said that the 2.4m minimum height restriction was removed in 2005, and is not now enforceable.

dont know where he got that from??

I was always of the understanding that the "suggested" height comes from Part F ventilation.
This suggested height has NOT changed in the 2009 Part F regs. see diagram 3 which clearly states that a 2.4 m heigh min is consistant with good room design. (and is almost verbatim what previously existed)

was there another refernce to 2.4 m anywhere in the building regs or building act?

Its a case of a reg suggesting a dimension rather than demanding one, however, should it go to a court of law, would you be willing to argue that 2.4 is not the regulation???

[mickdw]

IMO, 2.4m is very much on the low ide of what anyone should be designing to. Anything less than that feels uncomfortably low.

[Mellor]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

TGD F "suggests" a minimum height of 2.4m.

I've just contacted a building control officer for clarification and he said that the 2.4m minimum height restriction was removed in 2005, and is not now enforceable.

No it doesn't. You are wrong here.

The building regs are law. Legal requirements.
The TGDs indicate (not suggest) a method of complying with the law.

It's true that in some areas of the TGDs other methods not included can comply with the law. This isn't one of them as there is no other alternative. You are using the method featured in the TGD, therefore the min stated by the TGD applies. any lower doesn't comply with the law. Enlighten me as to how you plan to justify using a lower dim?

[YouWantWhat]

Originally Posted by Mellor

No it doesn't. You are wrong here.

The building regs are law. Legal requirements.
The TGDs indicate (not suggest) a method of complying with the law.

It's true that in some areas of the TGDs other methods not included can comply with the law. This isn't one of them as there is no other alternative. You are using the method featured in the TGD, therefore the min stated by the TGD applies. any lower doesn't comply with the law. Enlighten me as to how you plan to justify using a lower dim?

Thats a bit of an arrogant reply. The TGD's are not law, but merely suggest a way of complying with the Building Regulations. If it was mandatory to have a min. ceiling height of 2.4m then the word 'shall' would have been used, but the word 'suggests' (to propose (a person or thing) as suitable or possible for some purpose) is used. The TGD section which refers to ceiling heights is Ventilation, are you suggesting that the only way to have a properly ventilated room is to ensure the ceiling height is greater than 2.4m!?

You also should not be making such statements unless you can back it up with authority and fact. I had this confirmed by the Building Control Authority, who are the authority for the Building Regulations in this country. I would take their recommendation over yours.

[focus_mad]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

Thats a bit of an arrogant reply. The TGD's are not law, but merely suggest a way of complying with the Building Regulations. If it was mandatory to have a min. ceiling height of 2.4m then the word 'shall' would have been used, but the word 'suggests' (to propose (a person or thing) as suitable or possible for some purpose) is used. The TGD section which refers to ceiling heights is Ventilation, are you suggesting that the only way to have a properly ventilated room is to ensure the ceiling height is greater than 2.4m!?

You also should not be making such statements unless you can back it up with authority and fact. I had this confirmed by the Building Control Authority, who are the authority for the Building Regulations in this country. I would take their recommendation over yours.

Had a read of Part F:2009 there. The dims as shown in the diagram are To be "consistent with good room design....and good building practice".

so if you are to go below these dims then you are going against said "good building practice"?

Regarding the TGDs, these are used as so to be in compliance with the Building Regulations. If one was to ignore these guidelines, wouldn't one not be in compliance?

As everyone knows in Ireland things do not work like clockwork so while a staff member of the Building Control Authority may say one thing, the planners of the different County Councils may very well have a different opinion. (I'm not saying it's right but it happens).

Also as you mentioned in your OP there is a recommendation of 2.4m in the building regs so ultimately the planners will always refer to that.

If you are still in the planning stage it won't cost that much to adjust the plans to match the 2.4m height..or are you at the construction stage?

I'm just asking as a way of seeing where you are coming from.

On a side note iMO Mellor and Syd usually know what they are talking about (years of experience etc)

[archtech]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

You also should not be making such statements unless you can back it up with authority and fact. I had this confirmed by the Building Control Authority, who are the authority for the Building Regulations in this country. I would take their recommendation over yours.

One small fact, there's more than one Building Control Authority in this country, Each local authority has a Building Control Authority.

Some building control authorities have been known to interperate Technical Guidance Documents incorrectly so just because they said it, doesn't mean its definitive. Confirmation from the Building Standards Section of Department of Environment, Community and Local Government would be far better. However the most definitive guidance of what the law is, is via a court ruling.

[YouWantWhat]

Originally Posted by focus_mad

Had a read of Part F:2009 there. The dims as shown in the diagram are To be "consistent with good room design....and good building practice".

so if you are to go below these dims then you are going against said "good building practice"?

Regarding the TGDs, these are used as so to be in compliance with the Building Regulations. If one was to ignore these guidelines, wouldn't one not be in compliance?

As everyone knows in Ireland things do not work like clockwork so while a staff member of the Building Control Authority may say one thing, the planners of the different County Councils may very well have a different opinion. (I'm not saying it's right but it happens).

Also as you mentioned in your OP there is a recommendation of 2.4m in the building regs so ultimately the planners will always refer to that.

If you are still in the planning stage it won't cost that much to adjust the plans to match the 2.4m height..or are you at the construction stage?

I'm just asking as a way of seeing where you are coming from.

On a side note iMO Mellor and Syd usually know what they are talking about (years of experience etc)

I would refer you to my previous post, and I reiterate its content. To refer to the Chief Building Control Officer at Waterford County Council as a "a staff member of the Building Control Authority" is a bit derogatory.

The TGD's are only guidelines. If you read the introduction page in any of the TGD's it states that "the adoption of an approach other than that outlined in the guidance is NOT precluded".

Take part B for instance, perhaps you've heard of fire engineering, that's a way of complying with the building regulations without necessarily referring or conforming to Part B. The same applies to every other section.

[focus_mad]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

I would refer you to my previous post, and I reiterate its content. To refer to the Chief Building Control Officer at Waterford County Council as a "a staff member of the Building Control Authority" is a bit derogatory.

The TGD's are only guidelines. If you read the introduction page in any of the TGD's it states that "the adoption of an approach other than that outlined in the guidance is NOT precluded".

Take part B for instance, perhaps you've heard of fire engineering, that's a way of complying with the building regulations without necessarily referring or conforming to Part B. The same applies to every other section.

Well perhaps if you stated that it was the C.B.C.O of WCC it would have handy?however he / she is still a staff member?

In past dealings with Building Control Authorities, they can still get it wrong sometimes.

TGDs are guidelines as so to be in compliance with the building regs.
You mantioned the recommendation in the building regs is 2.4m, so you have read that and didn't like the sound of it?

Also what is the background to your question so that we can see the angle that you are looking from?

we are not talking about Part B though are we?

In fairness, reading back over the thread, you don't appear happy at all that fellow boardsies have a different opinion on this topic but hey that may just b me.

[YouWantWhat]

Originally Posted by focus_mad

Well perhaps if you stated that it was the C.B.C.O of WCC it would have handy?however he / she is still a staff member?

In past dealings with Building Control Authorities, they can still get it wrong sometimes.

TGDs are guidelines as so to be in compliance with the building regs.
You mantioned the recommendation in the building regs is 2.4m, so you have read that and didn't like the sound of it?

Also what is the background to your question so that we can see the angle that you are looking from?

we are not talking about Part B though are we?

In fairness, reading back over the thread, you don't appear happy at all that fellow boardsies have a different opinion on this topic but hey that may just b me.

When I started the thread I was looking for facts, not peoples opinions or interpretations. Since then I contacted the BCO myself and got the facts from them. But people on this forum seem to know better!

[focus_mad]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

When I started the thread I was looking for facts, not peoples opinions or interpretations. Since then I contacted the BCO myself and got the facts from them. But people on this forum seem to know better!

You mentioned fire engineering as a different interpretation of Part B did you not?

the people on this forum were imparting their knowledge. If you didn't want their answers, why post in the first place?
So IMO what I can get from your replies is that you don't want to share the background to your question, you have decided you don't want to comply with building regs and there has possibly been a mistake with a design / building.

Regarding building control, you have heard of Priory Hall up here in Dublin haven't you?

[YouWantWhat]

Originally Posted by focus_mad

You mentioned fire engineering as a different interpretation of Part B did you not?

the people on this forum were imparting their knowledge. If you didn't want their answers, why post in the first place?
So IMO what I can get from your replies is that you don't want to share the background to your question, you have decided you don't want to comply with building regs and there has possibly been a mistake with a design / building.

Regarding building control, you have heard of Priory Hall up here in Dublin haven't you?

Whatever.

[archtech]

Originally Posted by YouWantWhat

When I started the thread I was looking for facts, not peoples opinions or interpretations. Since then I contacted the BCO myself and got the facts from them. But people on this forum seem to know better!

You got The Building Control Officer's interpretation of the Technical Guidance Document.Did the Building Control Officer put it in writing?