[amacachi]

Originally Posted by randylonghorn

Because the freedom to believe and the freedom NOT to believe are the two sides of the same coin.

That's what "freedom of religion" really means ... that you have the freedom to believe or not to believe, without interference or bullying or pressure or ridicule.

Down any other road there be dragons madness ...

... and it starts just like this ...

VVV

Are you a teacher by any chance?

[jefreywithonef]

I'm an agnostic, bordering on full atheism. Used to be semi-religious until recent enough (well, up until the last couple of years), as in I'd continue to go to mass if called upon (for the once-a-year Christmas visit) and cling onto whatever lingering hope I had of there being a god.

To be honest though, that was the main reason for it, hope. Hope that there was something better to come after the drudgery of this life. That sounds horribly melodramatic -- and awfully self-interested -- but anyway...

Now I've stopped all that: I know full well that it's ludicrous to imagine an after-life and that there's some fellow living in the clouds who's somehow omnipresent and righteous and so on. Still though, I can't fully dismiss it, nor can I say I don't think about it at all anymore. I'm 99% a disbeliever, but can't get the remaining one percent of a niggling doubt to feck off.

Who knows, maybe one day I'll be walking in a field and have an amazing epiphany akin to someone from a Tolstoy novel.

Agree completely with the disparaging comments about the silly rules and whatnot. A friend and I were walking along a busy corridor in college yesterday and he stopped halfway and had what appeared to be a mental breakdown, basically groaning out loud and clutching his head in self-hate. The reason for this? It was Ash Wednesday and he had eaten some chicken. He's not overly religious but I found it hilarious (I burst out laughing) that someone could get so worked up about a stupid rule like that.

Also, I could never accept the idea of an almighty god whom we all have to be subordinate to. Have to praise him constantly in prayer and worship. F*ck that.

[Aoibheann]

Originally Posted by challengemaster

And my opinion is that anyone who needs religion in their life is pathetic, so much so I feel sorry for them that they need fairytales to get on with life, and can't actually think for themself.

My opinion is that anyone who feels the need to criticise the beliefs of others should take a really long look at themselves.

I mean, really? How do you know that people who believe in some sort of higher being can't think for themselves, haven't DECIDED to believe off their own bat? Funny thing is, I know several people who have become atheists only to become Catholics/believers in general again at a later stage. So I think they've made their own minds up.

I'm in a course full of science-minded people. In fact, in studying maths I'm studying one of the most pure forms of logic. Yet, there are people with very strong religious beliefs in my class. Now, being an atheist, I struggle to find their reasoning behind it, I really do. But I have no problem with it. For some people, it's a comforting thought to believe that a god exists. I seek my comfort elsewhere, but I don't presume to call people pathetic for having beliefs that I don't necessarily attest to.

I don't mean to offend here, but I'm really incensed by that remark. Look, I don't give a flying fuck what anyone believes in. But I don't think either side should try to force their beliefs on the other. As randy said, "The freedom to believe and the freedom NOT to believe are the two sides of the same coin."


Oh, and to address the original idea of the thread: As I said, I'm an atheist. But even if a God did exist, I wouldn't care! Wonderful apathy.

[Jesus Juice]

I felt uncomfortable voting for Agnostic on that poll because you put (because we just don't know)...Religion/God whatever doesn't factor into my mind at all ever. I just don't care at all, atheists get too worked up about it for me! I believe in the science aspect of it obviously.

[Jesus Juice]

Originally Posted by Aoibheann

My opinion is that anyone who feels the need to criticise the beliefs of others should take a really long look at themselves.

I mean, really? How do you know that people who believe in some sort of higher being can't think for themselves, haven't DECIDED to believe off their own bat? Funny thing is, I know several people who have become atheists only to become Catholics/believers in general again at a later stage. So I think they've made their own minds up.

I'm in a course full of science-minded people. In fact, in studying maths I'm studying one of the most pure forms of logic. Yet, there are people with very strong religious beliefs in my class. Now, being an atheist, I struggle to find their reasoning behind it, I really do. But I have no problem with it. For some people, it's a comforting thought to believe that a god exists. I seek my comfort elsewhere, but I don't presume to call people pathetic for having beliefs that I don't necessarily attest to.

I don't mean to offend here, but I'm really incensed by that remark. Look, I don't give a flying fuck what anyone believes in. But I don't think either side should try to force their beliefs on the other. As randy said, "The freedom to believe and the freedom NOT to believe are the two sides of the same coin."


Oh, and to address the original idea of the thread: As I said, I'm an atheist. But even if a God did exist, I wouldn't care! Wonderful apathy.

Also, Aoibheann's post reminded that, if people believe in Religion, thats their opinion it doesn't bother me. Just please, PLEASE don't start asking why I don't believe in God (like my religion teacher)

[Pygmalion]

Originally Posted by Jesus Juice

I just don't care at all, atheists get too worked up about it for me! I believe in the science aspect of it obviously.

To be fair, no part of being an atheist requires you to care whether there's a god, you just have to not believe in one.

Likewise you don't have to care about evidence or science, just most atheists, or at least the ones who argue about it a lot, tend to care about it.
As a counterexample these guys believe that we were placed here by aliens and that the bible contains coded messages from or about these aliens; but they don't believe in god(s), making them as atheist as I am (but in my opinion not quite as mentally stable).
A less crazy counterexample would be that a lot of Buddhists are also Atheist, because while they have a religion, and in most cases beliefs about the supernatural and stuff like that, they don't necessarily believe in god(s).

[jumpguy]

Originally Posted by challengemaster

One way or another - I'm a scientist, and have been primarily scientifically minded most of my life. Needless to say I'm an athiest

Needless to say? Just because you are scientifically minded, doesn't automatically equate to having no religious beliefs. There are many examples of people like that out there, even Einstein held some religious beliefs (albeit, rather difficult to define, pantheist beliefs).

[Jesus Juice]

Originally Posted by Pygmalion

To be fair, no part of being an atheist requires you to care whether there's a god, you just have to not believe in one.

Likewise you don't have to care about evidence or science, just most atheists, or at least the ones who argue about it a lot, tend to care about it.
As a counterexample these guys believe that we were placed here by aliens and that the bible contains coded messages from or about these aliens; but they don't believe in god(s), making them as atheist as I am (but in my opinion not quite as mentally stable).
A less crazy counterexample would be that a lot of Buddhists are also Atheist, because while they have a religion, and in most cases beliefs about the supernatural and stuff like that, they don't necessarily believe in god(s).

Yeah true brah, have a look at the Atheist forum, every post has a minimum 1000 words! Well I have Religious ideals and I think a Religion like Buddism can only promote good things but I just don't have enough passion for it to argue about it!

[amacachi]

I'm sure the majority of people here find homophobic/racist views pathetic (whatever justification the holder of such views tries to use) and I happen to find belief in sky fairies and gnomes pathetic.

[Ginja Ninja]

Originally Posted by challengemaster

IMO religion is nothing more than something thought up of by people to make life (and death) not seem so scary, especially to children. I mean, come on - Someone dies and they go to this amazing, peaceful, tranquil place in the sky? And my opinion is that anyone who needs religion in their life is pathetic, so much so I feel sorry for them that they need fairytales to get on with life, and can't actually think for themself.

I'm very scientifically minded as well and I have to disagree.just out of curiosity what would your opinion be on something else intangible,like luck? Or something like faith in another person?[As in believing Obama can make a difference or something like that] would you also see that as pathetic?

I would agree that the thought of an afterlife in the clouds is a bit hard to swallow however I can't see the downside in having something to give hope to someone.Whether that's some possibly fictional guy from 2,000 years ago or some well spoken politician/athlete right now,people need someone/thing to believe in.

That and the lessons in morality taught by religions are crucial for a well rounded individual,i think.there are other ways of instilling good values to your kids but organised religion is by far the easiest I can see

[amacachi]

It wasn't directed at me but I gotta bite.

Originally Posted by Ginja Ninja

I'm very scientifically minded as well and I have to disagree.just out of curiosity what would your opinion be on something else intangible,like luck?

Of course luck "exists" depending on how you define it.

Or something like faith in another person?[As in believing Obama can make a difference or something like that] would you also see that as pathetic?

I said several times during the election that that was pathetic. See here:

[randylonghorn]

Originally Posted by amacachi

Are you a teacher by any chance?

I'm not a primary / post-primary teacher, if that's what you mean? ... nor have I ever been.

That said, in several quite different roles, the word "education" (in it's very broadest sense) has probably always appeared *somewhere* in the job descriptions, probably one of the few words which would have been common to all of them!!

Why?!

[amacachi]

Originally Posted by randylonghorn

I'm not a primary / post-primary teacher, if that's what you mean? ... nor have I ever been.

That said, in several quite different roles, the word "education" (in it's very broadest sense) has probably always appeared *somewhere* in the job descriptions, probably one of the few words which would have been common to all of them!!

Why?!

Just practicing my Derren Brown based on what you were saying.

[Banjo Fella]

I'm supposedly a Catholic, though I've grown fairly apathetic about organised religion over the past few years and now I don't really know where I stand any more. I do believe that our universe is a strange aul' one, as universes go, and that there could be a much larger picture, hidden just about but forever out of our sight. Maybe a God could be responsible for all the unlikely rules our lives have to follow, or maybe the rules themselves are a kind of God? Hmm, I hoped I wouldn't descend into rambling nonsensery within my first paragraph, sorry about that. I suppose I'm agnostic, if I were to put a ribbon on it.

I used to believe really strongly when I was younger, but I got disillusioned over time. A few years ago, my brother decided that he'd prefer being a Protestant. My mum was horrified by this, having grown up with all kinds of horrible, bigoted notions about a denomination that has almost exactly the same set of beliefs as Catholicism. She all but disowned him for a few years, completely shattered his confidence and self-worth, and there was this awful, awful atmosphere that lingered whenever my brother and my mum were in the same room. It was just so horrible... and all because of something so petty! So, that changed my views about religion a lot. I just didn't feel the same about it at all, I lost all enthusiasm for going to mass and would pretend to sleep in so that I wouldn't have to go but wouldn't have to confront my parents about it either.

Even though I can get really frustrated with religion and the ways it inspires war, injustice, prejudice, phobia, and hate, and so on, I still think it's a valuable part of humanity. Fundamentally, religion represents and teaches the best of human intentions, that we should love and treat one another with respect. You can't really find fault with an idea like that, and people who follow it in a considerate, genuine way do make the world better. The basic message is a good one, but things can go horribly wrong when people misinterpret religious texts or use them to defend their intolerance. Intolerance works both ways, too... self-righteous, dogmatic atheists are just as bad as any other kind of extremist.

Studying physics for the past couple of years has given me a tiny idea of how little we currently know about the way stuff works, and how what we hope to learn is also, ultimately bounded. I don't believe we can ever prove or disprove the existence of a higher entity, much like how we can understand that matter gravitates towards itself but never understand why it's in Nature's nature to do so. So, I think everyone's entitled to their own beliefs provided they treat others' with as much respect. Decent, considerate people should never be ridiculed for their faith or lack thereof, and you can shove Russell's teapot up your universally extrinsic orifice if you think otherwise.

As for an afterlife, or stuffs like that, I have a couple of views. Some are conventional, and others involve crazy, parallel universe sort of stuff that I won't get into because it's incredibly, embarrassingly stupid. Mostly I think that whatever happens, happens. Whatever existence has in store for us when we die is what awaits us, so, everything will be the way it should be. Death is sad and terrifying, but it could be kind of beautiful too, in a strange way.

[bluejaymraz]

Like nearly everyone else here I've had your pretty typical Catholic upbringing and I'm still forced into going to Mass nearly every Sunday. I've stopped trying to argue about it and wriggle my way out of going to Mass by now, my parents, my Mam, in particular are fairly religious. She goes to the morning Mass nearly every weekday morning too.

There was a slight uproar in my house lately about my sister's wedding (which is next week). She's getting married to someone who isn't a catholic but I think is some other branch of christianity and also was still waiting ofr this seeration from his last wife to come through. There was some complication with th epaperwork and if it hadn't came through in time, they woudn't have been allowed to have their wedding in a catholic church, which left my parents saying that if she wasn't getting married in a church, then they weren't going to the wedding at all.

I have no problem with religion and everyone can believe in whatever they want to believe in, one of my best friends who moved away was a Muslim sure and no one in our class in school ever seemed to have any kind of problem with it. There were 3 or 4 Muslim girls in my class last year and we were pretty supportive actually, at least I think we were.

Although right now, I suppose that I don't really believe in anything or any God, although I do have my odd moment when I want something so badly that I just do have a silent prayer to who/what ever is out there, if anything at all.

I think I was one of the few people in my class who didn't get ashes this year when they were being given out at lunch. Nearly everyone else went and some of them were nearly talking about it all day but I just didn't feel the compulsion to get t hem, they really have no meaning to me at this moment, maybe in a few years time but not right now. The same with confessions before Easter last year. Anyone who went got to get out of class but again, I was one of the few who didn't go. There has always been something that just put me off about sitting there telling a priest about your wrong doings, especially when I had nothing major to say to him.

The only somewhat religious thing that I do is bless myself eery time I go ut our front door, but I think it's just a habit that I've gotten into because we've always had a little holy water font thing inside the front door. I think that I just do it out of habit and if I go out without doing it I have to go back in and do it.

Also as I'm typing this I can see a holy water bottle in the shape of Mary on the shelf across from me, it's full but I've hardly ever used it except in the moments os silent prayer for something really important.