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08-01-2011, 16:04   #1
BogMonkey
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How does Irish law differ from US law

I found a good youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights
I'm not a criminal but I like the idea of knowing how to deal with police encounters. Especially if I had to deal with a corrupt one. Those videos are interesting but how much of this applies to Irish law? For example in Ireland do you have the right to remain silent and see a lawyer or do you have to answer questions and aren't entitled to talk to a lawyer? Or what about car searches and house searches. Do the Gardai require your consent before they can legally search your car? Do they need a search warrant to search your house?

Last edited by BogMonkey; 08-01-2011 at 16:11.
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08-01-2011, 16:34   #2
MagicSean
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Originally Posted by BogMonkey View Post
I found a good youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights
I'm not a criminal but I like the idea of knowing how to deal with police encounters. Especially if I had to deal with a corrupt one.
If you cooperate, be truthful and follow lawful directions you shouldn't have any trouble in your day to day life.

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Originally Posted by BogMonkey View Post
Those videos are interesting but how much of this applies to Irish law? For example in Ireland do you have the right to remain silent and see a lawyer or do you have to answer questions and aren't entitled to talk to a lawyer?
Yes you can remain silent but in some cases assumptions can be made by your failure to answer questions. you also have the right to consult a solicitor if you have been arrested.

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Or what about car searches and house searches. Do the Gardai require your consent before they can legally search your car?
No.

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Originally Posted by BogMonkey View Post
Do they need a search warrant to search your house?
Most of the time.

Sites like the one you posted aren't great. The law is never as simple as it seems. Gardaí have many powers under different statutes and the common law and a regular person has little hope of knowing them all. That's what solicitors are for.
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08-01-2011, 16:36   #3
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Bankers get arrested in america
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08-01-2011, 16:39   #4
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The main reason vehicles or people get searched in Ireland is for suspected offences under the misuse of drugs act. Section 23 of that Act allows a member of An Garda Siochana to search you and your vehicle without warrant. If you don't agree to be searched then you will be detained and brought to a Garda station to be searched.

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23.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—

(a) search the person and, if he considers it necessary for that purpose, detain the person for such time as is reasonably necessary for making the search,

(b) search any vehicle, vessel or aircraft in which he suspects that such drug may be found and for the purpose of carrying out the search may, if he thinks fit, require the person who for the time being is in control of such vehicle, vessel or aircraft to bring it to a stop and when stopped to refrain from moving it, or in case such vehicle, vessel or aircraft is already stationary, to refrain from moving it, or

(c) seize and detain anything found in the course of a search under this section which with such cause appears to him to be something which might be required as evidence in proceedings for an offence under this Act.

(2) Nothing in this section shall operate to prejudice any power to search, or to seize or detain property which may be exercised by a member of the Garda Síochána apart from this section.
On arrest every prisoner is given a notice of rights, this outlines that they may consult with a solicitor in writing, by telephone or in person, and have a person reasonably named by them notified that they are in custody. It also covers things such as medical treatment, provision of meals etc etc.

Be polite and don't try to be obtuse, If you don't act the clown and leave the member do his job then there will be no problem.

Edit: for more info look at the citizens information bureau website.

Last edited by source; 08-01-2011 at 16:46.
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08-01-2011, 23:27   #5
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23.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—
In the scenario depicted there was no reasonable cause displayed. To search for any items.

So in the scenario depicted could the Gardai search the vehicle against the wishs of the owner under Irish Law?

I would go with they could not.
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09-01-2011, 00:51   #6
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How does Irish law differ from US law? Start with the fact that there are 50 states in the US and all of them have different laws.

It is the case that certain rights apply all over the US, including the so-called Miranda right to be informed of your rights when you're arrested but when it comes to the details you need to be aware of the law in the state that you happen to be in at the time, such as as the rules about turning right on red and so on.

If you're driving a car in the US then the main thing to remember as a tourist is that you must not get out of the car and approach the cops behind you. No matter how many times you've seen it in the movies, there is something in the Irish psyche that sometimes says 'I'll get out and have a chat with these lads' - big mistake! Stay in the car, keep your hands on the wheel, wind down the driver's window, wait for the cop to approach you and take it from there.
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09-01-2011, 01:36   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zambia232 View Post
In the scenario depicted there was no reasonable cause displayed. To search for any items.

So in the scenario depicted could the Gardai search the vehicle against the wishs of the owner under Irish Law?

I would go with they could not.
I was answering the question in the post about whether or not members require the car owners permission for a search, I wasn't commenting on the video.

The other big difference is that laws in Ireland are based on Bunreacht na hEireann, whereas US laws are based on the US constitution which are both very different documents created for very different nations.
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09-01-2011, 06:33   #8
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Originally Posted by k_mac View Post
If you cooperate, be truthful and follow lawful directions you shouldn't have any trouble in your day to day life.
That depends on the Gard you're dealing with. Since I turned 18, every Garda encounter I've had, the Gards were respectful and friendly and didn't even search me but Gards are like anyone else, some of them are scumbags.


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Originally Posted by k_mac View Post
Gardaí have many powers under different statutes and the common law and a regular person has little hope of knowing them all. That's what solicitors are for.
I doubt even lawyers know them all but by knowing even a handful of them you have a greater ability to deal with problems involving it. Knowledge is power.

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Originally Posted by foinse View Post
23.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—
Do they define what "reasonable cause" is or do they mean whatever the Gard considers is reasonable cause for suspicion?

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Originally Posted by coylemj View Post
No matter how many times you've seen it in the movies, there is something in the Irish psyche that sometimes says 'I'll get out and have a chat with these lads' - big mistake!
Yeah so many people carry guns in the US, the police take no risks. In Canada 3 police cars pulled up beside me after some lad called the police cuz he thought I was instigating a fight with him and his friends and considering 3 of them were scared of me on my own he probably thought I had a weapon. When the cars pulled up nobody got out, 1 cop was asking me questions through the window and since he was so respectul and friendly to me my natural reflex was to empty my pockets and show them that I didn't have a weapon on me. In retrospect that was stupid, if the police were scared I coulda got shot for reaching in my pockets like that. If that was the US I probably woulda got shot haha.
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09-01-2011, 06:59   #9
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Reasonable cause is what exactly what it says on the tin, its what a reasonable person would consider reasonable.
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09-01-2011, 15:17   #10
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I doubt even lawyers know them all but by knowing even a handful of them you have a greater ability to deal with problems involving it. Knowledge is power.
No it won't help you at all. If the Gardaí do something illegal you can always revisit it afterwards via the Ombudsman or a solicitor. If you fail to follow a direction because of something you think you know you'll find yourself in trouble. Every situation is different and the slightest difference can make a command lawful or unlawful. The best thing is to cooperate and if you feel hard done by report it afterwards.
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09-01-2011, 23:06   #11
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Reasonable cause is what exactly what it says on the tin, its what a reasonable person would consider reasonable.
If a reasonable person considers something reasonable reasonable, what would an unreasonable person consider something reasonable. Would the reasonable person consider the unreasonable persons reasonable suspicion unreasonable using his reasonable suspicion or would he consider his own reasonable suspicion unreasonable
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10-01-2011, 07:17   #12
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Originally Posted by BogMonkey View Post
If a reasonable person considers something reasonable reasonable, what would an unreasonable person consider something reasonable. Would the reasonable person consider the unreasonable persons reasonable suspicion unreasonable using his reasonable suspicion or would he consider his own reasonable suspicion unreasonable
Yes ....within reason of course
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10-01-2011, 12:20   #13
WildOscar
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Originally Posted by BogMonkey View Post
I found a good youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights
I'm not a criminal but I like the idea of knowing how to deal with police encounters. Especially if I had to deal with a corrupt one. Those videos are interesting but how much of this applies to Irish law? For example in Ireland do you have the right to remain silent and see a lawyer or do you have to answer questions and aren't entitled to talk to a lawyer? Or what about car searches and house searches. Do the Gardai require your consent before they can legally search your car? Do they need a search warrant to search your house?
http://www.iccl.ie/welcome-to-the-ic...ghts-page.html
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10-01-2011, 12:22   #14
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If you cooperate, be truthful and follow lawful directions you shouldn't have any trouble in your day to day life.
not true, what if you are given an unlawful direction
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10-01-2011, 15:33   #15
MagicSean
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not true, what if you are given an unlawful direction
I said lawful. Otherwise it's just advice, which should generally be taken anyway.
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