[Endymion]

Ah here, that's a cop out and you know it. I've said very little on anything heterosexual related so it's a bit rich to start attributing patterns of "how I say things". I openly admit I found a lot of comments by that person very distressing and I didn't feel I could bring myself to reply without attacking her for all the things I'd encountered myself. I recognised that limitation and stated away. I viewed the other posts by Aard and Dubark as being very fair and marvelled at how readily they were able to engage with the OP despite their background. The moderator came in with both feet and a complete disreguard for the sensitivity of the situation. By all means allow threads like that, but please please please recognise that they are on a knife edge and you shouldn't trample on the LGBT people in how they are handle.

A bit more caring and thought would be great.

[Nevyn]

If a thread/post is that distressing to you and you can't post in a constructive or helpful manner then don't post, it's really that simple.

[Endymion]

Originally Posted by stephen_n

Your whole attitude towards the thread and the poster are bigoted and I must have missed the comment by her that called homosexuality an affliction so maybe you can quote that for me.

She made numerous reference to her son being less then a heterosexual throughout the thread. I suggest you read what was posted before throwing around accusations like candy.

[Endymion]

I don't want to get into this back and forth. Maybe I over reacted somewhat due to anger. My feedback is that a there could have been a little more sensitivity to and thought for the LGB members posting/reading the thread. Just because there wasn't a load of users negatively commenting on how hurtful her comment were, doesn't mean it's OK to assume everyone is happy with them. It's important to try and achieve balance and minimise the upset caused to one grouping in an attempt to shield another.

[Quentinkrisp]

I'm a relative newcomer to the thread, only started posting in it a few months ago- i've no problems with the way the forum is moderated, the charter should stay as it is.

From reading this thread, I have gathered that there was a serious fiasco a week ago involving a poster called boston. I don't know who he is, or what the fiasco was about, but it must've been serious if a charter change is currently being discussed.

When it comes to potentially inflammatory/offensive posts, the key phrase to remember is 'one person's meat is another person's poison', i.e some of us here would've experienced vile homophobia in the past and are now accustomed to it would take posts of that nature in our stride, whereas others who are nervous about their sexuality would take them as being extremely offensive and hurtful.

The following subjects are not kosher for discussion:

Paedophilia, (Ep)hebophilia(except in the context of safety for homosexual youth), bible-bashing(we're well aware of the religious stance on homosexuality) , discussions on whether homosexuality is natural or unnatural or related materials, questioning of trans identities

Any such posts will be immediately deleted and posters will face banning.

I think the third one in that list is quite apt, since I firmly believe that whether homosexuality is wrong or not should never be up for debate.ever.

As has been said before, there is no free speech on this site, and whether a thread is approved or not lies firmly at the discretion of the forum mods/admins i suppose.

thats my 2 cents.

[Nevyn]

Originally Posted by Endymion

I don't want to get into this back and forth. Maybe I over reacted somewhat due to anger. My feedback is that a there could have been a little more sensitivity to and thought for the LGB members posting/reading the thread. Just because there wasn't a load of users negatively commenting on how hurtful her comment were, doesn't mean it's OK to assume everyone is happy with them. It's important to try and achieve balance and minimise the upset caused to one grouping in an attempt to shield another.

And as a mod sometimes you cant' win, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't but the OP will get preference with in reason they are the one who started a thread looking for help. If thats brushes up against your issues start your own thread.

[Endymion]

Ah I think Ixoy's response was pretty much perfect Thaedydal. Using tact rather then a blunt force. It really isn't good enough of you to tell people "don't post, start your own thread".

[stephen_n]

Originally Posted by Endymion

Ah here, that's a cop out and you know it. I've said very little on anything heterosexual related so it's a bit rich to start attributing patterns of "how I say things". I openly admit I found a lot of comments by that person very distressing and I didn't feel I could bring myself to reply without attacking her for all the things I'd encountered myself. I recognised that limitation and stated away. I viewed the other posts by Aard and Dubark as being very fair and marvelled at how readily they were able to engage with the OP despite their background. The moderator came in with both feet and a complete disreguard for the sensitivity of the situation. By all means allow threads like that, but please please please recognise that they are on a knife edge and you shouldn't trample on the LGBT people in how they are handle.

A bit more caring and thought would be great.

And there in lays the crux of the problem, you brought your issues into the equation and projected them on to her.

Originally Posted by Endymion

She made numerous reference to her son being less then a heterosexual throughout the thread. I suggest you read what was posted before throwing around accusations like candy.

And that is equal to "homosexuality an affliction" how? and if you bothered to read what she said, she made the argument that it was less than what she expected, not that her son was less than because he was gay, she was talking about her personal expectations for him not making a point about gay people.

Originally Posted by Endymion

I don't want to get into this back and forth. Maybe I over reacted somewhat due to anger. My feedback is that a there could have been a little more sensitivity to and thought for the LGB members posting/reading the thread. Just because there wasn't a load of users negatively commenting on how hurtful her comment were, doesn't mean it's OK to assume everyone is happy with them. It's important to try and achieve balance and minimise the upset caused to one grouping in an attempt to shield another.

But your answer was that she shouldn't have been allowed post and as I have said I think you read a lot into what she said that wasn't there, she certainly didn't appear bigoted, just naieve and misinformed but that's not a crime.



This leads back to my point a few pages back that if you setup the charter on the basis that someone might be offended then nothing will be open to discussion. The chance to educate, inform and change prejudices would be lost.

[Endymion]

Originally Posted by stephen_n

But your answer was that she shouldn't have been allowed post and as I have said I think you read a lot into what she said that wasn't there, she certainly didn't appear bigoted, just naieve and misinformed but that's not a crime.

That certainly wasn't what I said. You're a great one for condemning me for reading things into posts, only to do it yourself. I was okish with the thread, and I've challenged you to demonstrate were I attacked her. I reacted to what the moderator said about "disagreeing with her opinions". I don't really want to converse with you any longer, you've accused me of being a bigot apparently because of some sixth sense you have and not because of the actual content. The idea that I'm a hetrophobic is laughable in the extreme considering the vast majority of my friends, family, associates etc are heterosexual. I'm just not particularly tolerant of certain views and yes that is 100% as a result of personal experience.

[mango salsa]

Originally Posted by Endymion

By all means allow threads like that, but please please please recognise that they are on a knife edge and you shouldn't trample on the LGBT people in how they are handle.

I think that when posters resort to insults and I'm referring generally here not to any poster (even you yourself Endymion had reported an abusive post early in the thread) there does need to be some steps taken by a moderator to halt this - as you said above - Its a knife edge for everyone concerned - parent and LGBT person - I don't think asking people to refrain from insults or abuse is trampling over anyone - Its trying to keep the discussion going in a respectful manner - also if the OP gets an impression that LGBT are just cranky and narky and think that she's a bigot - It doesn't really help her son at all.

[Endymion]

That's all fine, but when you say infract or ban, these words have impact and can be taking very personal. Asking people to step back and ease off is going to be viewed in one light, telling people to back up and ease off or get a smack with a big stick, is going to be viewed in another light. Obviously I wouldn't still be posting here (this forum) if I didn't feel I'd over reacted somewhat. My first reading of what was posted was "shut the **** up and take it" which on reflection wasn't fair of me.

[Aard]

I'd have absolutely no problem with a call of "refrain from insults or abuse", but rolling out threats of infractions is steep and offputting.



I don't know if you were referring to me, jmcg, but you mentioned "bigot", which is a word that I used. Are we not allowed to call a spade a spade? The OP came in knowing full well she was prejudiced against her son's being gay. The reason I used the word was because she was circumventing my questions and addressing their non-essential material. [Sounds familiar...]

I called her on why she wasn't answering the question, and the only reason I could see was that she couldn't. It was far easier for her to give a passive-agressive response. I felt that was completely unwarranted, after I had spent a half-hour typing up a helpful comment, which included divulging personal information. I felt disrespected. No thank-yous from her. No comments on it. Nothing. What's the fucking point, I ask myself. Then I get her aforementioned response, which felt like a big middle finger after the effort I had made. I call her on it. Is it that "bigot" is only a word one can use when dealing with overt homophobia, and not with "I'm homophobic, but..."? Because if so, that's shit. That's censoring. That's pandering. That's patronising.



Then I get threatened with infraction. I continue to ask myself: "What's the fucking point?"

[mango salsa]

Ok - fair points Aard and Endymion - perhaps the threats of infractions were a little heavy handed - In cases like this there does need to be sensitivity from everyone - pointing out why you feel her views are wrong might be more appropriate - I'm not trying to censor anyone who calls people on covert Homophobia -

[Aard]

How is pointing out why I think her views are wrong any more appropriate than telling her that I think her views are wrong?


At any rate, my "insensitive" post wasn't even targeting her views; it was targeting her lack of response and attention to irrelevant detail.

[Dr. Baltar]

Originally Posted by Aard

How is pointing out why I think her views are wrong any more appropriate than telling her that I think her views are wrong?


At any rate, my "insensitive" post wasn't even targeting her views; it was targeting her lack of response and attention to irrelevant detail.

The Objective of the thread (in my opinion anyway) was

a) Help a mother come to terms with the fact that her son is gay.
b) Educate said mother that a gay son is not the end of the world.
c) Break through OP's ignorance with fact & our own stories

I fail to see how calling a "Heartbroken Parent" a bigot helps her or us in anyway.