Letter in today's Irish Times

uberwolf · 31-12-2010 12:41pm #1

Letter in today's Irish Times:

Madam, – I would like to bring to your readers’ attention two sections of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 that refer to cyclists.

“Section 14 (3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided.

“Section 47 (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.”

Over the past number of months I have witnessed cyclists cycling on the road right beside a brand new cycle lane. Furthermore, cycling clubs appear to think that it is acceptable to cycle in “race formation” while training. Both these practices are against the law and result in the cyclist being put at unnecessary risk. – Yours, etc,

RICHIE McCORMACK,
Executive Technician,
Palmerston Depot,
Roads Maintenance,
South Dublin County Council,
Cursis Stream,
Old Lucan Road,
Palmerston,
Dublin 20.

this goads me. I'm not as familiar as some here, but is there a distinction between cycle lane and cycle track? In so far as some are prescribed, and others not?
that, in combination with an broadside against the sport of cycling.

mloc123 · 31-12-2010 12:45pm

meh, people that write into the times are one step above youtube comments...

uberwolf · 31-12-2010 12:53pm

well this is a chap who feels happy to write representing himself as part of the county council roads department. So it's representative of a mindset in there.

seamus · 31-12-2010 12:56pm

A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast
...
cycling clubs appear to think that it is acceptable to cycle in “race formation”

This mistake is made constantly, everywhere. How the feck do you get confused by the words "more than two abreast" and assume it means that you must ride in single file?

I very rarely encounter cycling clubs on roads cycling more than two abreast. In fact, I never encounter large groups cycling more than two abreast unless it's an official race.

mloc123 · 31-12-2010 12:57pm

"Executive Technician", I presume that is a "Executive Shovel Technician"

Cookie_Monster · 31-12-2010 12:58pm

"Executive Technician" = Roadworks shovel guy

when is that law in regards to not having to use the cycle tracks being brought in?

As for the point of big groups of cyclists 3/4/5 abreast I'm afraid I have to agree, its annoying and unnecessary on busy roads

mloc123 · 31-12-2010 12:59pm

http://ie.linkedin.com/pub/richard-mccormack/24/55/b09

seamus · 31-12-2010 1:02pm

Going by his education, he appears to be mid-thirties, maybe 40. He might be savvy enough to discuss it here with us if someone wants to mail him?

mloc123 · 31-12-2010 1:06pm

seamus wrote: »

Going by his education, he appears to be mid-thirties, maybe 40. He might be savvy enough to discuss it here with us if someone wants to mail him?

I'm mor interested in what he did in between 1996 and 2005... the internet, makes stalking too easy.

tomasrojo · 31-12-2010 2:23pm

uberwolf wrote: »

Letter in today's Irish Times:

this goads me. I'm not as familiar as some here, but is there a distinction between cycle lane and cycle track? In so far as some are prescribed, and others not?
that, in combination with an broadside against the sport of cycling.

In Irish law there's no such thing as a cycle lane. Both on-road and sidewalk facilities are called "cycle tracks" here. Which is a pity, as there was already a well-established convention in the English language of cycle tracks being sidewalk or off-road, and cycle lanes being on-road.

I like this man's attention to detail. The name on his LinkedIn page is "RIchard McCormack".

He's wrong about the "racing formation". Two abreast is permitted. He's right about the SI that makes cycle tracks compulsory, but since that SI has never been tested in law and the National Cycling Framework of a few years ago conceded that many cycle tracks are badly maintained and hazardous, I wouldn't bet on the SI being upheld should it ever go to court.

tomasrojo · 31-12-2010 2:27pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

In Irish law there's no such thing as a cycle lane. Both on-road and sidewalk facilities are called "cycle tracks" here. Which is a pity, as there was already a well-established convention in the English language of cycle tracks being sidewalk or off-road, and cycle lanes being on-road.

I like this man's attention to detail. The name on his LinkedIn page is "RIchard McCormack".

He's wrong about the "racing formation". Two abreast is permitted. He's right about the SI that makes cycle tracks compulsory, but since that SI has never been tested in law and the National Cycling Framework of a few years ago conceded that many cycle tracks are badly maintained and hazardous, I wouldn't bet on the SI being upheld should it ever go to court.

If you google "cycle lane cycle track", this is near the top.
http://dublinobserver.com/2010/10/cycle-lane-highlights-in-dublin/

It's one of @monument's articles.

Where do you think one might find the "brand new cycle lanes" Richard writes of? Probably on his route to work. I bet they're absolute rubbish, like all the others.

Cookie_Monster · 31-12-2010 2:30pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://dublinobserver.com/2010/10/cycle-lane-highlights-in-dublin/

It's one of @monument's articles.

Lol, quality.

tomasrojo · 31-12-2010 2:43pm

mloc123 wrote: »

meh, people that write into the times are one step above youtube comments...

True enough, though the correspondence doesn't descend into obscenity and name-calling quite so quickly.

At least, I hope it doesn't, as I sent in a brief response.

macken04 · 31-12-2010 3:19pm

We as the consumers of these 'cycling tracks' should write a common response. More chance of getting something published that way

Robertd_07 · 31-12-2010 3:26pm

If nothing else, I think his employers (SDCC) will have an issue with him linking his position in work with a personal opinion. I know I'm going to write a letter to them on this anyway.

mikemac · 31-12-2010 3:34pm

Is this his own personal opinion or an official statement from SDCC?

If it's just from him, then I doubt his employer will be impressed. You shouldn't claim to speak for somebody without permission

Beasty · 31-12-2010 4:00pm

Can't see why the "roads maintenance" department should be making any sort of official statement on this (unless they think these cyclists are doing too much damage to the roads:rolleyes:), and hence I think we can safely assume this letter was sent in a personal capacity, with his job being included in an (failed so far as I am concerned) attempt to add some credibility.

If this is the case, I would have thought his employers would not be particularly impressed if they are made aware of this

mloc123 · 31-12-2010 4:02pm

Perhaps an email/letter to sdcc asking if the original letter was in an official capacity?

macken04 · 31-12-2010 4:08pm

i would assume his employers would be very unhappy with being attached to what i consider a personal attack on cyclists. Although he may have a point to some extent, in regards to the law stating 'cycle tracks' must be used, the state and design of many make this dangerous to many.

Beasty, would it be ok if i was to write a reply with a common context from the forum?

Roadtoad · 31-12-2010 4:12pm

I'll give him full marks for identifying himself clearly, and not hiding behind an alias. Such comments have to be worth way more than any from our anonymous banter.

macken04 · 31-12-2010 4:15pm

identifying himself could well land him in serious trouble. i would never do such a thing. Im sure my boss with run me out of the building, especially if i worked for a public institution, also the one charged with designing and creating these monstrosities

mockler007 · 31-12-2010 4:53pm

if this guy spent more time fixing the roads in palmerstown, instead of sending letters that do nothing, maybe then my nans house would have water in that area, never mind the holes in the road, and the manky cyclelanes, wait there are no cycle lanes in palmerstown, ok at the footbridge there is, all 20 meters of it.
how many times do drivers get held up with there wide tractors etc etc etc

fair play to the guy, he has mastered the fine art of shovel leaning and writing into the times at the same time, who said men cant multi-task:D

English Bob · 31-12-2010 5:06pm

Drivers who think it's easier to overtake a group of club cyclists in single file are the type of drivers who think it's ok to squeeze so close to get past you they nearly knock you into a ditch (& all for the sake of a few seconds gained! Do these people not realise the danger they put cyclists in?!). Drivers as far as I can tell have very little idea of how to give a cyclist room on the road. In the wet conditions this week I have been gob-smacked at the poor driving I witnessed with cars not being driven with care and attention when overtaking me on the bike.
All drivers should be properly educated in how to give space to cyclists when overtaking.
Also., the 'cycle lane' & hard shoulder is so full of crap you'd need to borrow a shovel to make it through!!!

High Nellie · 31-12-2010 6:05pm

Seems that he is a 'civil engineer'. Working in that dept. he 'should' know that many of the cycle lanes are highly dangerous.
As he used his work address, which is a public dept., it would seem that it would be reasonable that constructive comment could he sent him at that addrss.
Anyone got his work e-mail address?

airscotty · 31-12-2010 6:06pm

English Bob wrote: »

Also., the 'cycle lane' & hard shoulder is so full of crap you'd need to borrow a shovel to make it through!!!

Never a truer word said.

High Nellie · 31-12-2010 6:11pm

High Nellie wrote: »

Seems that he is a 'civil engineer'. Working in that dept. he 'should' know that many of the cycle lanes are highly dangerous.
As he used his work address, which is a public dept., it would seem that it would be reasonable that constructive comment could he sent him at that addrss.
Anyone got his work e-mail address?

Or, better still, the e-mail address of his line manager??

mikemac · 31-12-2010 6:19pm

If I wrote a letter to the Irish Times and gave my work details I'd be hauled into HR

Wonder if anything will happen the bould Richie

Captain Havoc · 31-12-2010 6:27pm

macken04 wrote: »

i would assume his employers would be very unhappy with being attached to what i consider a personal attack on cyclists. Although he may have a point to some extent, in regards to the law stating 'cycle tracks' must be used, the state and design of many make this dangerous to many.

Beasty, would it be ok if i was to write a reply with a common context from the forum?

We could write a letter but I don't think we should get boards.ie involved but by all means if someone or some people want to stand over the letter.

copacetic · 31-12-2010 6:36pm

seamus wrote: »

This mistake is made constantly, everywhere. How the feck do you get confused by the words "more than two abreast" and assume it means that you must ride in single file?

I very rarely encounter cycling clubs on roads cycling more than two abreast. In fact, I never encounter large groups cycling more than two abreast unless it's an official race.

I see it quite a bit out the enniskerry road, often 3 or 4 abreast. Generally it's the bigger groups with 2 abreast at front and back and more in the middle.

Another quite bad bit is on the way up past the Mint out over the M50 where they have narrowed the road to only a cars width and put the cycle lane on the path. Every sat and sun morning loads of people cycle 2 abreast out the road ignoring the lane (which is not a great lane design right enough) It makes it impossible to get by as it's quite busy coming the other way.

Imo this is the kind of riding that really pisses people in cars off, there is a clear cycle lane and people ignore it holding up cars on a road that is only designed to work if people actually use the cycle lane. Although it's annoying I always use the cycle lane here knowing how inconsiderate it is not too...

Beasty · 31-12-2010 7:14pm

Captain Havoc wrote: »

We could write a letter but I don't think we should get boards.ie involved but by all means if someone or some people want to stand over the letter.

Definitely cannot mention boards without clearing it with the powers that be (Darragh/Dav)

I would agree with Captain Havoc - if individuals want to put their (real) names to a letter, clearly that is nothing to do with Boards (even if you use boards to formulate it)

macken04 · 31-12-2010 7:32pm

Your right beasty,
I reckon we should as a group reply to this statement, more chance of rebuttal being published that way. Maybe i could type up something and link to a google document, leave it up until monday for anyone to sign and then send it off to the editor ??

Would linking be ok beasty, i will not bring boards.ie or anyone connection to the site into the letter

Thanks

Letter in today's Irish Times

Comments