[mickdw]

Modnote: Posts moved from this thread to keep it on topic: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056042026


Looking at alfa price list, there would want to be discounts across the board. 159 starting at 31,500. Thats madness

[-Chris-]

Originally Posted by mickdw

Looking at alfa price list, there would want to be discounts across the board. 159 starting at 31,500. Thats madness

The 159 needs to be starting at €26k-ish imho.

[mickdw]

Originally Posted by -Chris-

The 159 needs to be starting at €26k-ish imho.

Ya I would have thought so too

[Tea 1000]

Not sure why Alfa would need to price their 159 10 grand less than an A4 for example?

[-Chris-]

It needs to be within a few grand of a Mondeo or similar. The 159 isn't a competitor for an A4, 3 Series or C Class.

The 156 came out in 98/99, the 159 is very similar to the 156. That makes it an 11 year+ design.
You're not going to pay a premium for that.

[Tragedy]

The A4 isn't a competitor for a 3 series or C class, despite all protestations to the contrary.
The 159 definitely isn't a competitor to a Mondeo. It's in the same limbo as Saab and Volvo's have always been in.

Also, the 159 has nothing in common with the 156, what the hell nonsense are you basing that on?

[-Chris-]

Originally Posted by Tragedy

The A4 isn't a competitor for a 3 series or C class, despite all protestations to the contrary.

Let's not get into that debate - we'll drag the thread off topic...

Originally Posted by Tragedy

The 159 definitely isn't a competitor to a Mondeo. It's in the same limbo as Saab and Volvo's have always been in.

The Saab 9-3 and Volvo S40 are in the same boat - they're 10 year old designs that have tanked in terms of market share.

If I were promoting or pricing it, I'd be positioning it as a fancy family saloon (i.e. a little more expensive than a Mondeo or its ilk) rather than in the same category as the S40/9-3 (dead ducks) or in the "executive" category.

Originally Posted by Tragedy

Also, the 159 has nothing in common with the 156, what the hell nonsense are you basing that on?

It's visually very similar to the 156 from both interior and exterior. To the public perception it's very much the same car.

[Tragedy]

Originally Posted by -Chris-

The Saab 9-3 and Volvo S40 are in the same boat - they're 10 year old designs that have tanked in terms of market share.

The s40 is a 6 year old design, not 10?

If I were promoting or pricing it, I'd be positioning it as a fancy family saloon (i.e. a little more expensive than a Mondeo or its ilk) rather than in the same category as the S40/9-3 (dead ducks) or in the "executive" category.

I would have said 159, 9-5, S60/V70 actually, s40/9-3 are quite small.
They don't have their own category, they're just in an unfortunate no-mans land between premium and bland salesrepmobile. Not much different than the old Accord or Legacy to be honest.

It's visually very similar to the 156 from both interior and exterior. To the public perception it's very much the same car.

We're not talking about public perception(and seriously, how many people on boards have admired the 159?) which is debateable, we're talking about you calling it an 11 year old design.

It isn't, it's a 5 year old design that has alfa styling cues(v shaped front grill, centre console dials).

Your Audi is as guilty as Alfa, or any carmaker for using a corporate grill and keeping interiors fairly samey.

[-Chris-]

Originally Posted by Tragedy

The s40 is a 6 year old design, not 10?

And the 9-3 is 8 years old, give or take. Both models are too long in the tooth and their sales suffered as a consequence.
I consider the 159 in the same boat.

Originally Posted by Tragedy

I would have said 159, 9-5, S60/V70 actually, s40/9-3 are quite small.
They don't have their own category, they're just in an unfortunate no-mans land between premium and bland salesrepmobile. Not much different than the old Accord or Legacy to be honest.

Is the 159 really that much bigger than a 9-3? Is size the USP? It's certainly not in the same size category as the S60 or 9-5 imho.

So what you're saying is there's
Rep mobile (Mondeo)
No man's land (9-3, S40, Accord, Legacy)
The 159 category (any competitors?)
Executive cars (BMW, Merc, possibly Audi depending on your perspective)

Originally Posted by Tragedy

We're not talking about public perception(and seriously, how many people on boards have admired the 159?) which is debateable, we're talking about you calling it an 11 year old design.

OK, I'm saying that I believe most people see it as an extension of the 156 which was launched 11 years ago or so. It's not differentiated properly. It's very similar inside and out (although the underpinnings and mechanics may be newer).


Why aren't we talking about public perception? If the public perceived the current price and value offering of the 159 to be good, they'd be selling.

They're not. That's about all you can say about it.
You need to drop the price or improve the car.

Originally Posted by Tragedy

It isn't, it's a 5 year old design that has alfa styling cues(v shaped front grill, centre console dials).

Again, perception is reality, even 5 years old is to old without a brand new model on the horizon.
The 159 comes across as a 156 facelift rather than a new model.

Originally Posted by Tragedy

Your Audi is as guilty as Alfa, or any carmaker for using a corporate grill and keeping interiors fairly samey.

Every manufacturer keeps their cars for around 7 years with a facelift at 3.5 years, except for a few specific (and generally low volume) exceptions. It makes sense. The proper new model needs to be substantially different to the last model.
That's why I hope for success for the Giulietta, whereas I believe there needs to be a realignment of prices for the 159.

[VolvoMan]

Originally Posted by -Chris-

And the 9-3 is 8 years old, give or take. Both models are too long in the tooth and their sales suffered as a consequence.
I consider the 159 in the same boat.

Every car comes to the end of its shelf life sometime, no need to slate it for that fact.

It's certainly not in the same size category as the S60 or 9-5 imho.

The S60 isn't in the same class as the 9-5.

So what you're saying is there's
Rep mobile (Mondeo)
No man's land (9-3, S40, Accord, Legacy)
The 159 category (any competitors?)
Executive cars (BMW, Merc, possibly Audi depending on your perspective)

Why is there a need to categorise each mid-size/family car in terms of image? People should be able to drive what ever car they like and not give a damn about such pretentious bullsh1t.

[-Chris-]

Originally Posted by VolvoMan

Every car comes to the end of its shelf life sometime, no need to slate it for that fact.

Absolutely, and this discussion didn't start with me slating anything, just making the comment that the 159 needs a reduction in price.

Originally Posted by VolvoMan

The S60 isn't in the same class as the 9-5.

OK

Originally Posted by VolvoMan

Why is there a need to categorise each mid-size/family car in terms of image? People should be able to drive what ever car they like and not give a damn about such pretentious bullsh1t.

People should be able to drive what ever they want, but denying that brand image exists or that it's "pretentious bullsh1t" isn't being realistic.

Anyway, we're probably off-topic at this stage, so apologies to Motorcheck. Maybe we can agree to disagree or take it to a different thread.

[mickdw]

Hope I didnt start that 159 argument with my comments on high alfa prices!

[Kopy]

I really like the Alfa 159 Jtdm for its looks and performance !

[Tragedy]

No point quoting your post Chris, but again, to come back to it yet again(because you still refuse to admit): you posted

That makes it an 11 year+ design.

Thats utter tosh, backed up by no actual evidence or facts. That's your personal bias for whatever reason rearing it's head.

The 159 is a 5 year old modern design, and we can't talk about public perceptions because I really don't think the public has a perception of Alfas over here(and if they do, how do we know it?). Like saying the public perception of Mazda is changing - what public perception?

You also still keeping saying the 159 is basically the same interior and exterior as the 156 without actually saying how it is.
To the vast majority of people, this is a 156.
This is a 159.

This is a 156's interior.
This is a 159's.

If you're arguing that people in general look at both and see the same thing, well.. Wow.

[VolvoMan]

Originally Posted by Tragedy

Thats utter tosh, backed up by no actual evidence or facts. That's your personal bias for whatever reason rearing it's head.

You're wasting your breath, man. Chris, with most of the general Irish public, is of the opinion that if it's not Audi (or pretty much anything German) then it won't do.