[Cuddlesworth]

Originally Posted by Sandvich

No, they haven't. I don't know where you even get this impression. TF2 isn't optimised for lower spec machines. It works on systems with sub-par GPUs, but the Source engine is CPU bound, not GPU bound. The early versions of TF2 were fairly optimised and could run on most machines. The laptop I had when I first played it was definitely inferior(on paper anyway) to the one i had now, and it ran much better. Now it's a complete mess. It gets slower every update.

I very much doubt it's an external factor outside of their control. Fact is there's not been a single optimisation related update(bar one regarding the netcode, which made no difference to me, it's still ****).

The fact that Left 4 Dead 2 runs slightly better despite the hordes of Zombies shows it obviously is something within their control. Though honestly that could be improved too.

Threads like these are very common:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum.../t-966206.html
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum.../t-990179.html

Note this quote -

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1034316



There was a really long thread on steampowered but I can't seem to find it.

I can't see anybody doing any actual troubleshooting, just complaining. Like I said that sort of performance issue would be outside of the Valves control. I would have expected bios upgrades, antivirus removal, OS changes, reinstalls, changes to windows power settings, disabling thermal management/power-saver settings in the bios and driver updates other then the graphics cards. Using a second monitor, checking out resource manager and process explorer while the game is running to check out is there anything happening.

[Sandvich]

Originally Posted by Cuddlesworth

I can't see anybody doing any actual troubleshooting, just complaining. Like I said that sort of performance issue would be outside of the Valves control. I would have expected bios upgrades, antivirus removal, OS changes, reinstalls, changes to windows power settings, disabling thermal management/power-saver settings in the bios and driver updates other then the graphics cards. Using a second monitor, checking out resource manager and process explorer while the game is running to check out is there anything happening.

Well, there are lengthy threads that have troubleshooted this and a couple of the people in that thread have said they've tried just about everything.

I don't know why some people have to be so obnoxious as to always presume it's the fault of the person with the issues.

It's bull**** to say that it's outside of Valve's control, when people are clearly able to run much more recent games at good settings without FPS issues. The issue clearly TF2. It's only when a majority of games aren't running correctly that you can blame it on the system configuration, because clearly other devs don't have the same issues Valve do getting their game to work on more systems without random performance issues.

[Dcully]

Originally Posted by wayne040576

You forgot to mention that the pc version suffers from horrible memory leaks meaning the game becomes unplayable after about an hour due to load times and slowdown.

I still haven't been able to play it that much. I installed 1.04 the other day hoping it will solve some of the memory leaks. Haven't tried it yet.

Never had that issue with my version, i have the boxed retail version.

Console for Driving

The pc has a massive driving community, especially the simracing community.

[ProjectColossus]

On topic: Gaming on PCs is definetly worth it. I spend entirely too much time gaming on my laptop.

My games look great, better than the console equivelant in almost all cases, bearing in mind that I'm on a 16 month old laptop.

Keyboard + mouse works better in any games I care to play, and even then, I can plug in a 360 controller which I did for Dead Space.

I'm currently playing through Fallout 3 again, having gotten the GOTY edition. I have access to plenty of mods, and more importantly for me, the developer console. You don't get that on a PS3 or Xbox as far as I am aware.

Games are usually cheaper. Multiplayer is free. PS3 has that right in fairness. Microsoft can cram it with walnuts though.

Somewhat off topic:
I really really like Valve, they produce fantastic games. I haven't been playing TF2 as much lately and even still I have about 270 hours played. I have no issues what so ever playing TF2, nor did I on my previous machine. But, it has to be said that a lot of people are having issues that are unusual and have so far remained unresolved. People on high end hardware are getting low fps with no explanation, and the particle engine is killing some machines. Sandviches points are valid.

In the cases where old machines are not running the game well (excluding the somewhat rare cases of problems with high end machines), that's par for the course with PC gaming really though. Even then, Valve games tend to run well, for longer.

Originally Posted by Sandvich

Actually, a console can leave your PC free for having it up permanently. No more dicking around with Valve's ****ty alt+tab bugs.

No longer a problem, current version of Steam has an in-built browser so you don't have to alt+tab out! (Which does usually fark up source games) Yay for porn. Or gamefaqs or whatever.

[ShadowHearth]

OP was dissapointed that there is no exclusives for pc?

there are loads , specially if you are new to pc gaming you can pick up loads of classics which are just pure awesome!

Trust me, after you played mw2 on xblender, and then sitting down to pc, you will newer come back to xblender version. freedom of control is just amazing.

I grew up on consoles, and it was awesome. I got all consoles and pc. the only game that i recently played on pc was forza 3. and that was 3 months ago...

PC all the way, spcially when prices of powerfull rights dropped so low! It used to be a pain in a hole good 7-10 years ago. when you bought latest machine , and after 1 months theres a twice more powerfull machine for same money...

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

Trust me, after you played mw2 on xblender, and then sitting down to pc, you will newer come back to xblender version. freedom of control is just amazing.

Is xblender the 360? Personally having played MW2 on the PC I wanted to go back to the 360 because at least there I'm used to P2P gaming. Do not want on the PC though thank you very much IW. People can say what they want about Treyarch but at least they're not up their own arses as much as the IW.

[Blowfish]

Originally Posted by Auvers

PC is for FPS, RPG, RTS and MMO games (World of Tanks is brilliant btw) & mouse keyboard control

Console for Driving/Football games as I cant play FPS games on a console because those awful control pads

Or just buy a controller for the PC and play Driving/Football games there too. Works especially well with emulators.

Another one is JoyToKey which maps directly from gamepad to keyboard and is completely customisable, so will work with games which weren't actually designed for a controller and can be used to control things like media players and even navigating around Windows.

[ShadowHearth]

Originally Posted by gizmo

Is xblender the 360? Personally having played MW2 on the PC I wanted to go back to the 360 because at least there I'm used to P2P gaming. Do not want on the PC though thank you very much IW. People can say what they want about Treyarch but at least they're not up their own arses as much as the IW.

Iwnet thing did came from consoles. So the only ones that we have to thank for it are consoles... And how can you be sick of iwnet on pc, if you have ALL games based on IWnet on xbox?

They droped the ball with Iwnet, but i did not had much of trouble playing with it. People make more noise about it, then there actuall is...

Only reason why xblender version would be more whanted, is becouse people play on xbox and have all theyr friends on it. I personally have loads of friends on pc, we have our own vent server, so when you turn on pc, you turn on vent and you are socialising with all your friends! so playing on pc with friends is not an issue.

i did bought ps3 version of MW1, after playing it for couple of months i got myself pc version. i newer came back to ps3 after that...

people tend to be afraid of stuff they dont understand. thats why there are so many people against pc gaming. Its supperior in any given way, just people are not arsed to learn it. Its way easyer to buy same game for twice the price and drop it in to xblender, which will do everything for you...

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

Iwnet thing did came from consoles. So the only ones that we have to thank for it are consoles... And how can you be sick of iwnet on pc, if you have ALL games based on IWnet on xbox?

As I said, I'm used to P2P gaming and the associated side effects on the console so I'm more tolerant towards it. On the PC, however, I have no time for it.

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

They droped the ball with Iwnet, but i did not had much of trouble playing with it. People make more noise about it, then there actuall is...

I don't go for the usual fanboy rage associated with it but it was certainly an inferior experience compared to the usual client/server model. I understand why they did it, to an extent anyway, but that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

people tend to be afraid of stuff they dont understand. thats why there are so many people against pc gaming. Its supperior in any given way, just people are not arsed to learn it. Its way easyer to buy same game for twice the price and drop it in to xblender, which will do everything for you...

People are against PC gaming for more reasons than that, reasons which have been brought up several times before on this very forum. At the end of the day, PC Gaming often requires a technical knowledge beyond the level of the average consumer or beyond the level they wish to learn in order to play games. Why would they need to bother if they can just put the game into the console and boom, it works? Personally I'm glad I have the best of both worlds but I do understand where some people are coming from with the console love.

And for the love of god please stop calling it xblender.

[Sandvich]

I still haven't really gotten a ton of examples of games I can play...

Sitting around I have Mass Effect, Far Cry 2 and Turok I kind of want to try that ran a bit **** on this PC(don't understand why Mass Effect was so bad), and I'm looking forward to turning up the settings on L4D2. Some of the maps can be killer on FPS. I'll probably pick up Starcraft II at some point.

But none of those games really mega impress me.

I miss the days when you got really unique games on PC, and they were fully developed cutting edge product, not just indie games. I'm remembering random old games I used to pick off demo discs, like Banzai Bug, Amok, Scorched Earth, Blood, Duke 3D, Lemmings Paintball, tons more I can't remember. They were all pretty interesting. FPSes had a bit more character to them back then too.

I miss that era of PC gaming. All of those kind of games seem to be only on console now, but now consoles are drying up too for those kind of games.

I really want to get into Indie games now, but it's tough. I tried Dwarf Fortress and couldn't make head nor tail of it. I used to enjoy a couple of years back downloading Multimedia Fusion based games which had been developed to a good level. But I really want to see new technology being involved in this and most Indie games are at best Half Life 2 kind of quality. Which is actually sort of fine - I like that level of graphics and don't think many games "need" better than that. But I like to see things move forward too.

It just depresses me that a lot of the more visually inventive games were done before we actually managed to get a level of graphics where it's not so obviously made out of little triangles. Going back and playing some older games, the lack of overall smoothness and flat/dull nature of a lot of games can ruin what they set out to do. Nowadays, that's not really an issue.

There's so much amazing stuff that could be done with today's tech on a grander scale.

For example, imagine a Oddworld game done with the same level of technical prowess Crysis 2 will have, or a new Earthworm Jim game, or a Giants: Citizen Kabuto sequel.

I really hope American McGee's Alice too doesn't end up in development hell.

[BostonB]

Originally Posted by Sandvich

I'm thinking about building a gaming rig as my current laptop struggles with Team Fortress 2(mostly due to optimisation issues on Valve's side, not my computer's specs which are decent).

But is it really worth it?....

What do mean worth it. Fun? Value for money?

By rig do you mean Laptop or desktop?

If the game (or version - mouse/kybd control - high res) you want is only on the PC then thats what you have to get, obviously. (simulations especially). If you want better bang for buck a console makes more sense because the hardware doesn't obsolete as fast. If you have to get a PC then a desktop doesn't obsolete as fast as gaming laptop.

I think its thats simple.

Personally I prefer PC games, simulations and the controls etc. I also don't have room for a big desktop rig. So if it doesn't play on my laptop, I don't play it. There are some exceptions where the game is only on a console.

[Jazzy]

well if this halo reach game is the current benchmark for consoles then sell your granny to get a gaming pc

[ShadowHearth]

Originally Posted by gizmo

As I said, I'm used to P2P gaming and the associated side effects on the console so I'm more tolerant towards it. On the PC, however, I have no time for it.


I don't go for the usual fanboy rage associated with it but it was certainly an inferior experience compared to the usual client/server model. I understand why they did it, to an extent anyway, but that doesn't mean I agree with it.


People are against PC gaming for more reasons than that, reasons which have been brought up several times before on this very forum. At the end of the day, PC Gaming often requires a technical knowledge beyond the level of the average consumer or beyond the level they wish to learn in order to play games. Why would they need to bother if they can just put the game into the console and boom, it works? Personally I'm glad I have the best of both worlds but I do understand where some people are coming from with the console love.

And for the love of god please stop calling it xblender.

well okay, i wount. but everytime i start the damn thing, thats how i whant to call it

Anyway, avarage pc consumer can easily play games, you dont need technical level to insert cd, press install and press next a few times. moust of modern games will set graphic level by your current set up too.

i will say it again, its just laizyness. to make that extra step and actually look in to it. Decent desktop to play games are not crazy money. allmoust any desktop can play games, just make sure it has graphic card.

anyway. consoles are good for avarege joe, but if you have atleast few extra brain cells, which are not smoked are destroyed in pub, then use them to learn that small extra about pc gaming. now i am not refering to you m8, i am talking in general

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by ShadowHearth

well okay, i wount. but everytime i start the damn thing, thats how i whant to call it

Anyway, avarage pc consumer can easily play games, you dont need technical level to insert cd, press install and press next a few times. moust of modern games will set graphic level by your current set up too.

i will say it again, its just laizyness. to make that extra step and actually look in to it. Decent desktop to play games are not crazy money. allmoust any desktop can play games, just make sure it has graphic card.

anyway. consoles are good for avarege joe, but if you have atleast few extra brain cells, which are not smoked are destroyed in pub, then use them to learn that small extra about pc gaming. now i am not refering to you m8, i am talking in general

I just don't think people want to have to learn how to do new things to get into gaming. The problem is exacerbated when they can just pick up a console and know they can play every game that comes out in exactly the same way as everyone else. No need for checking specs on the box or wondering will it look as good on their machine, they'll know it'll work and continue to do so until the next console comes out.

[ShadowHearth]

Originally Posted by gizmo

I just don't think people want to have to learn how to do new things to get into gaming. The problem is exacerbated when they can just pick up a console and know they can play every game that comes out in exactly the same way as everyone else. No need for checking specs on the box or wondering will it look as good on their machine, they'll know it'll work and continue to do so until the next console comes out.

to be honest, last time i actually checked the game requirments 2.5 years ago... i grabed mafia2 reccently i just bought it, droped it in and playing it on max settings...

in fact, i got a wee bit enraged.... as mafia2 for pc is a clone from consoles...