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New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Also I just noticed while looking at Google maps that it appears some work has already taken place on the site. By looking at google street view at the top of Mornign Star Avenue the site looks like it has been cleaned up and has heave construction equipment there. I have no idea how long ago these pictures where taken though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    nowecant wrote: »
    Also I just noticed while looking at Google maps that it appears some work has already taken place on the site. By looking at google street view at the top of Mornign Star Avenue the site looks like it has been cleaned up and has heave construction equipment there. I have no idea how long ago these pictures where taken though.

    I just seen this when going a quick search. At least its building work on the site! The project comprises demolition and associated activities but the main works consist of the permanent removal of two invasive plant species, namely Giant Hogweed and Japanese Knotwood.

    You can see an aerial view of this site here with pictures of what it currently looks like and what the site is meant to look like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Some very good news on this

    "CITY councillors last night approved the framework for the development of the new €480m Dublin Institute of Technology campus."

    I will have to take a look at the An Taisce objections at a later stage


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Cathaoirleach


    some local residents have objected to buildings which would rise to 16 storeys.

    :rolleyes: ffs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    Is there any talk of doing something with the old Broadstone Station to complement the new campus. Other than the luas line
    Seems like an enormous waste of space and of a building to have the Bus Eireann depot in there. Given it's central Dublin location.

    It's also a DB depot too and, while it ain't pretty, having depots close to the city centre is very useful.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I'm a bit sceptical about the 16 floors thing actually (I work on the 39th floor of a commercial building so I have no problem with heights per se).

    First off, a group of towers in a low rise streetscape can be jarring. We're not talking about docklands or somewhere else where there are pre-existing 8-10 storey structures. A lot of people in Toronto like the "towers in the park" (usually beside subway stations) but I think it's odd looking to have random clusters of buildings like that.

    More importantly though, I'd be interested to know what would be going on the upper floors of these buildings. Undergrad students have to bounce from place to place during their day, so elevator capacity could quickly become saturated from xx.50-xx.05. Maybe it would work for postgraduate or administrative office space but for lectures, labs, libraries etc those should be on lower floors. There should also be interconnects between buildings at +2/+3 level (similar to the ones in UL) and/or basement concourses so that students can go between buildings without saturating lobby areas during working hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    the Ashby Building for mech eng in Queens is 10 storys and there was never a massive problem on lift capacity when I was studing there.

    That said - it's about planning!
    The main big lecture theatre and computer labs were on the bottom floor and if I remember right any other large-ish lecture theatres also only on the lower floors so also doable by the stairs if you are stuck, with upper floors being research labs and offices.

    The canteen was in the basement along with more research labs.

    So 10 storeys if very doable once you have the business end of things in the first few stories.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭eia340600


    dowlingm wrote: »
    I'm a bit sceptical about the 16 floors thing actually (I work on the 39th floor of a commercial building so I have no problem with heights per se).

    First off, a group of towers in a low rise streetscape can be jarring. We're not talking about docklands or somewhere else where there are pre-existing 8-10 storey structures. A lot of people in Toronto like the "towers in the park" (usually beside subway stations) but I think it's odd looking to have random clusters of buildings like that.

    More importantly though, I'd be interested to know what would be going on the upper floors of these buildings. Undergrad students have to bounce from place to place during their day, so elevator capacity could quickly become saturated from xx.50-xx.05. Maybe it would work for postgraduate or administrative office space but for lectures, labs, libraries etc those should be on lower floors. There should also be interconnects between buildings at +2/+3 level (similar to the ones in UL) and/or basement concourses so that students can go between buildings without saturating lobby areas during working hours.

    The only tall building will be used for student housing.It's a focal point at "Library Square" and at a mere 40 something metres I can't really see it standing out too much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    For the life of me I'll never understand this aversion to tall buildings in Ireland :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    People looking over you in your back-garden, doing ... back-garden-y things.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    except that's more a problem with midsize buildings - big enough to see over the fence, not so big that people look like moving grains of rice :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭gjim


    For the life of me I'll never understand this aversion to tall buildings in Ireland :o
    I guess we were influenced by seeing the damage caused to many medium sized UK cities by plonking completely out-of-scale tall buildings in random locations. Many such tall buildings now look incredibly dated and are accepted as having damaged long existing urban fabric.

    It's best to cluster tall buildings together but unfortunately the opportunity to create a high rise perfectly located quarter in the city was lost by the DDDAs insistence on relatively low height limits. The docklands should have been laid out to accommodate a grid of 10+ story buildings but instead we got a lot of bland medium/low height officepark type buildings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Just found an older article in Science Spin in relation to the new campus if anyone’s interested. http://www.sciencespin.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/

    This has a very good map of the proposed campus with entrances to the grounds. However what intrigues me most as i mentioned earlier is the possibility of an additional entrance on Phibsborough Road between the Fire station and Grangegorman Church.

    Its marked on the map as a green line which extends north towards the proposed Grangegorman Luas stop. It then continues east across the bus garage and then over towards the Blessington street basin.

    Has anyone got any thoughts on this? Am I reading to much into a line on a map?


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    While I’m not happy that its being reported that both the metro north and the dart underground are to be dropped or "deferred" it looks like the Luas line BXD which links both the existing lines and continues through to the new Grangegorman site and then links up with the Maynooth line at Broombridge will go ahead.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0812/1224302301839.html

    Good news for the college and for staff and students in the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,644 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    nowecant wrote: »
    Good news for the college and for staff and students in the future.

    Even better news;

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG255815

    Only a PIN for now but it says "It is anticipated that a contract notice will be published shortly".


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Some more very good news for the Campus

    "Few object to ‘urban quarter’ for DIT campus"

    If I remember right the submissions are on the GDA website, i might take a look in detail at them later to see what the particular problems are


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    nowecant wrote: »
    Some more very good news for the Campus

    "Few object to ‘urban quarter’ for DIT campus"

    If I remember right the submissions are on the GDA website, i might take a look in detail at them later to see what the particular problems are

    I read that article in SBS yesterday, when it says:
    and a major community and recreational resource for locals.

    What specific resources are planned for local community etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I know there is a new Educate together primary school, i think two large playgrounds and local library. I believe that local kids are to be getting access to some of the sports facilities such as the pool etc at certain times of the day, weekend and summer etc.

    There are other facilities but i just forget what they are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Not much of an update but ARUP have been awarded the contract to provide what appears to be a significant amount of the engineering services for the new campus.
    http://www.arup.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=104&a=384

    "The launch is a step closer to making the campus masterplan a reality, with the ambition to have 15,000 students on campus by 2016 which represents 70% of the DIT student population"

    Not sure if this is achievable but at least its a date which they have been given to work to.

    Anyone else have any info on the developement? its hard to find anything at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant




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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Lots of information here about the proposed alignment of the Luas near the new campus, the Broadstone Luas stop and the proposed Grangegorman Luas stop


    http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/#Alignment_and_Property_Details


  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭darragh16


    nowecant wrote: »
    Lots of information here about the proposed alignment of the Luas near the new campus, the Broadstone Luas stop and the proposed Grangegorman Luas stop


    http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/#Alignment_and_Property_Details

    I really hope this LUAS connection gets given the go-ahead in next months budget. If they provide the connector between the two Luas lines but will also give a connection from the city to GG. A far way off from it happening at the moment though


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Early report but still not good news

    "New site for DIT faces the axe in cutbacks"


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Not good. Hopefully further details will come later

    "Deferred projects include Metro North, DART underground, the prison at Thornton Hall and the Grangegorman DIT single campus project.

    However, the so called BXD project to link the two Luas lines and extend the service to Broombridge will proceed."


    RTE Report Grangegorman single campus to be deferred


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant




  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Sorry for the series of posts today but the news on this subject is comming in bits and pieces.

    Irish Times "DIT hopes to proceed with Grangegorman"

    Im not really sure of how they plan on doing this unless they are going to go down the root of selling naming rights to classrooms etc but I am happy they are not giving up. Hopefully there will be clarification over the coming weeks.

    "Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT) says it hopes over half of its activities will be based in the new Grangegorman campus by 2016 despite the scaling back of Exchequer funding announced today.

    The Grangegorman project and a series of third level building projects - where contracts have not been finalised -are the main casualties of the revised capital spending programme.

    DIT today reaffirmed its commitment to its ambitious plan for the 73 acre site in north Dublin.

    Originally, the institute hoped to relocate all of its 39 buildings in Dublin city to Grangegorman. Today, it said it hoped that more than 50 per cent of its activities could be based at the new campus within five years.

    DIT said it would look to private sources for funding to proceed. It is by no means clear if such funding will be available.

    "Unfortunately, in relation to DIT’s Grangegorman campus development, Exchequer infrastructure investment will be postponed for the lifetime of the investment framework,” Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn said. “Planning will take place towards an initial public private partnership project, for possible completion in 2017."


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Irish Times - Howlin cuts reduce next year's capital spending by €755m

    "Among the major projects which have been deferred indefinitely are:
    * Metro North and Metro West
    * The underground Dart
    * Thornton Hall Prison
    * The new DIT campus at Grangegorman in Dublin
    * The Western Rail Corridor"

    Irish Times - Institute to continue campus project despite funding cuts


    SEÁN FLYNN, Education Editor
    EDUCATION: DUBLIN INSTITUTE of Technology (DIT) says it hopes more than half of its activities will be based in the new Grangegorman campus by 2016 despite the scaling back of exchequer funding announced yesterday.

    The implementation of the Grangegorman project and a series of other proposed third-level building projects – where contracts have not been finalised – are the main casualties of the revised capital spending programme in education. New law and medical schools for UCD and a medical school for NUI Galway will not receive State support.
    Work has already begun on the UCD Sutherland law school, which is largely supported by private funding. UCD said it was “disappointed’’ with the decision last night.

    DIT president, Prof Brian Norton, expressed his disappointment, but said he was also heartened by the Government’s continuing support for the project and for elements of it that involve public-private partnerships (PPP).

    Prof Norton said the institute remained committed to its ambitious plan for the 73-acre Grangegorman project in north Dublin. Originally, it hoped to relocate all of its 39 buildings in Dublin city to Grangegorman; it hopes more than 50 per cent of its activities can be based at the new campus within five years.

    DIT said it would look to private sources for funding to proceed with the Grangegorman project.

    Prof Norton stressed the project had been designed around a range of flexible building packages to match available funding. “Exchequer funding is one important element but other essential funding for the project arises from leveraging savings on the rent-roll for existing properties, sale of DIT-owned properties, PPP bundles and privately funded elements through philanthropy.”

    Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn said that “unfortunately, in relation to DIT’s Grangegorman campus development, exchequer infrastructure investment will be postponed for the lifetime of the investment framework and planning will take place towards an initial public private partnership project, for possible completion in 2017”.

    Overall, the Department of Education will receive €440 million annually for capital projects over the next five years – down from about €500 million this year.

    ....(lots about building more primary and secondary schools).........

    Higher education capital investment projects with existing capital commitments in place will be completed. These include the UCD science centre, the University of Limerick medical school, NUI Maynooth’s library project and the new campus development at St Patrick’s College, Drumcondra.


    RTE - DIT hopes to proceed with Grangegorman campus



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,018 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    I'm just going to copy and paste a post I made in the DIT forum, it may be of some interest to people here:
    I was actually at a Student Conference this morning, and Prof. Norton was in attendance. We had a chance to ask him some questions, and Grangegorman was very much to the forefront of the discussion, understandably.

    He said that the media has sensationalised it a lot and confirmed that the development will take place.

    He said that only about 20% of the funding was coming from the government. The source of the other 80% was still being sourced as originally planned.

    Aside from that, it hasn't been scrapped, it has been delayed by 1 year. Payment will be made for the project, only it will be one year later than was originally planned. Grangegorman is a priority one project for the Government, and the minister said as much in his speech yesterday if you read the full transcript and not just the bit that was aired on TV.

    Prof. Norton also said that it won't delay the project by much at all, as they are simply going to reschedule the building works.

    Another point he mentioned is that the college already has a substantial amount of money in the bank for use on the development, and that the An Board Pleanala hearing will be in the very near future, within the next two weeks, he didn't have the date to hand.

    The rest of the conversation we had with him was under Chatham House Rules, so I can't go any further into what he said.

    TL;DR - The project is still progressing, however it will be in a slightly different order to what was originally planned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Ok, this has gone a bit mad now
    As the hearing opened shortly after 10 am a participant, who gave his name to the hearing as William Gorman, asked the inquiry inspector to make a rule that all parties give their evidence under oath.

    Mr Gorman said he was asking this because he had learned in recent days that the Garda Commissioner had asked members of the Criminal Assets Bureau and the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation to look at aspects of the development. Mr Gorman said he had also learned the Revenue Commissioners were inquiring into aspects of the development.

    IrishTimes DIT Grangegorman hearings open


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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    nowecant wrote: »
    Ok, this has gone a bit mad now



    IrishTimes DIT Grangegorman hearings open

    Not really sure what is going on here but it appears the Irish Times have changed the original article. It now has no reference to the above paragraph. However if you put it into Google search the original is still cashed, an image is here irishtimesgg.png

    irishtimesgg.png

    Anyway, news on the An Bord Pleanala hearing can be found here (same address) http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1124/breaking27.html

    RTE also have news at http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1124/grangegorman.html


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