[PhatPiggins]

Originally Posted by Amazotheamazing

I disagree, because we can't put the needs of one province ahead of the overall good of the game in Ireland.

We're stoney broke, I wish we weren't, but we are. If Heaslip gets a great deal in France then goodbye and good luck, imo. Like I said, same with with a Munster player, Ulster or Connacht.

If the FAI default on their commitments, you know the IRFU will have to pay up, do you think they are making cutbacks for a laugh?

Its looking increasing like a when rather then an if I fear.

[sock puppet]

Originally Posted by outwest

if he went to the rebels, he would be ruled out of the 6 nations. no team will sign a player only for him to be gone for the start of the season. france would be different. he could get a contract like wilkoson were he can go meet up eith national team for training.

super 14 starts in feb.

If he were to move down under he'd still be eligible for the June and November tests and the Lions series. Whether he'd be picked is another thing.

[twinytwo]

Originally Posted by PhatPiggins

He only gets one career and has every right to squeeze every penny out of it.

Besides having Irelands best player play outside the country is nuts.

you mean second best... right?

[Goose81]

Originally Posted by Amazotheamazing

I disagree, because we can't put the needs of one province ahead of the overall good of the game in Ireland.

We're stoney broke, I wish we weren't, but we are. If Heaslip gets a great deal in France then goodbye and good luck, imo. Like I said, same with with a Munster player, Ulster or Connacht.

If the FAI default on their commitments, you know the IRFU will have to pay up, do you think they are making cutbacks for a laugh?

No they wont,how do you think contracts work?

If the FAI default it is their problem and the banks come chasing them not the IRFU,it would then be up to them to service the debt probably through liquidation of assets.

The IRFU and the FAI would both have sought funding seperately,not together as one entity,thus the IRFU are not liable.

It would be interesting if they did default though,the banks would have to organise concerts and events at the stadium to make the money back.

[[Jackass]]

I think there's a lot of wishfull thinking on a lot of people's part who'd like to see Leinster (a lot mor so than Ireland) lose players such as Heaslip and O'Driscoll.

If Heaslip did do a stint abroad, primarily, it would NOT affect his international career, no more than Tommy Bowe, Heaslip is arguably the best player in the world in his position, and he is the Irish captain in waiting for when O'Driscoll retires. It's simple really, after the world cup, Heaslip will be offered a pay increase he would not get anywhere else in the world (except Touloun) and he will be made the Irish and Leinster captain. Rocky Elsom was brought back under similar bribary.

As for O'Driscoll, I don't think he will leave Leinster until he is ready to retire, which may well be after the world cup, but if he does a season or two abroad, it'll be a lot more about seeing the world and experiencing rugby abroad than leaving Leinster, he'll wind down for a season or two abroad maybe to finish his career, but he's achieved absolutely everything in Irish and European rugby, so I don't blame him.

I think from a Leinster point of view (god forbid - if there was EVER a time to say this) it would probably be the right time for O'Driscoll to go. There's a new era at Leinster and too many superb players coming through, it's interestnig the article points out the "Irish" academy system, but at Leinster, where 90% of the Irish talent is coming from, it's hard to expect the older guys to stay on forever when so many gifted players are coming through...who knows, by the next world cup, maybe Brendan Macken will be the greatest centre in the world, with McFadden at 12, O'Malley on the bench, Conway on the wing etc. etc. ... over half of the current Leinster squad are all academy graduates, and we've got to keep giving the youth a chance, and I think after the world cup we'll see a new, an in my opinion, far superior Leinster generation coming through, and looking at youth systems all over Europe, and where the top players are all coming from ineach national side, and the age of current first 15's, it's hard to see Leinster not being at the very fore front of European Rugby for the next decade and beyond.

[crisco10]

If BOD leaves Ireland will he not lose a rake load of money by losing some tax break you get for finishing your career in Ireland? I remember hearing something about that, not too sure of the ins and outs of that tax break...

[Podge_irl]

Originally Posted by crisco10

If BOD leaves Ireland will he not lose a rake load of money by losing some tax break you get for finishing your career in Ireland? I remember hearing something about that, not too sure of the ins and outs of that tax break...

Depends, he could come back and play for Blackrock or something like Shane Byrne. He's only really risking the possibility of getting a career-ending injury which would definitely put his tax break at risk.

[Conas]

Heaslip is only 26 and should go abroad and play in France or the Super 14. But Ireland would have serious problems in finding a better number 8 to replace him. Leamy is as fragile as glass and seems to be more times injured than he does playing it's the same with Ferris. Leamy has been crap for Munster in recent years anyway. Henry isn't good enough..so we will never get a better replacement to Heaslip. Ruddock in my opinion could be a very good 8 if he plays there more often. But I don't think it's bad for Heaslip going abroad he might aswell go to some place hot and get a tan.

[Ciaran-Irl]

Originally Posted by Conas

Heaslip is only 26 and should go abroad and play in France or the Super 14. But Ireland would have serious problems in finding a better number 8 to replace him. Leamy is as fragile as glass and seems to be more times injured than he does playing it's the same with Ferris. Leamy has been crap for Munster in recent years anyway. Henry isn't good enough..so we will never get a better replacement to Heaslip. Ruddock in my opinion could be a very good 8 if he plays there more often. But I don't think it's bad for Heaslip going abroad he might aswell go to some place hot and get a tan.

I'm delighted you're back Conas.

[Amazotheamazing]

Originally Posted by Goose81

No they wont,how do you think contracts work?

If the FAI default it is their problem and the banks come chasing them not the IRFU,it would then be up to them to service the debt probably through liquidation of assets.

Liquidation of assets... hmm, what do you think Lansdowne Road is? Do you think the banks will just give half it to the IRFU for kicks? What scenario do you see playing out if the FAI default? Certainly I think most people would agree the FAI's tenancy in Lansdowne in a large asset for them, probably their largest.

[Ciaran-Irl]

Originally Posted by Amazotheamazing

Liquidation of assets... hmm, what do you think Lansdowne Road is? Do you think the banks will just give half it to the IRFU for kicks? What scenario do you see playing out if the FAI default? Certainly I think most people would agree the FAI's tenancy in Lansdowne in a large asset for them, probably their largest.

The FAI have other assets they would liquidate first in the incredibly unlikely event that the go bankrupt. Landsdown is due to be paid off fully by IRFU in 2020. In the almost impossible scenario of the FAI selling their stadium share, rugby would just buy it over an extra 15 years.

[Amazotheamazing]

Originally Posted by Ciaran-Irl

The FAI have other assets they would liquidate first in the incredibly unlikely event that the go bankrupt. Landsdown is due to be paid off fully by IRFU in 2020. In the almost impossible scenario of the FAI selling their stadium share, rugby would just buy it over an extra 15 years.

The FAI debt, afaik, is something like 90 million approaching 100m, I admire your optimism that they could sell enough assets to raise that in the recession. If the IRFU even have to refinance slightly it will put massive strain on what the provinces can afford. Why do you think they've been making the extraordinary series of cutbacks they have? It would be worth seeing what the FAI's debt is secured against, were the IRFU as covered as you hope they are, they wouldn't be in such a hurry to re-order their books.

I like your use of the word "just" btw, as though an extra 15 years of serious debt is no bother to the IRFU. It's 15 years paying money they shouldn't have to and should be able to re-invest in the game here.

There is not a bottomless pit to pay provincial players from.

[thehighground]

I think it would suit the IRFU if the FAI were not able to repay their share of the stadium because the only reason they are in bed with the IFA was to get the money from the Irish Gov. (191m). According to the IRFU's annual report, the IRFU have only 6m left to pay back.

Even if the FAI were to go bust, there are still going to be international soccer matches to be played in a stadium and you will find that the Gov. grant money was given only on the condition that the stadium would be used for sporting events.

When you think of it anyway, the naming rights were worth €45m which knocks a fair hole in the FAI's share to repay of €71*, so really the IRFU would at the most be taking on a debt of €48.5m (which would be about €3m per annum over 15 years) which would be well covered by 4/5 soccer home internationals every year for the FAI's use of the stadium.

According to this article as well, the IRFU have 3,700 seats available for resale and another 1,300 in 2015 with a potential haul of €74.5m according to this.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...l-2245603.html

Domestic soccer will suffer big time - not the stadium development. Then again, the FAI don't have a €30m annual player staff bill like the IRFU have, thanks to English soccer.


Edit: *The €71m includes the Aviva naming rights - so the IRFU would have to come up with 71m not 48.5m. The IRFU would get all the profits from the running of the stadium and take over the FAI's payment schedule, bearing in mind the IRFU has managed to come up with €110m without extensive borrowing (6m).

[thehighground]

Originally Posted by Conas

Heaslip is only 26 and should go abroad and play in France or the Super 14. But Ireland would have serious problems in finding a better number 8 to replace him. Leamy is as fragile as glass and seems to be more times injured than he does playing it's the same with Ferris. Leamy has been crap for Munster in recent years anyway. Henry isn't good enough..so we will never get a better replacement to Heaslip. Ruddock in my opinion could be a very good 8 if he plays there more often. But I don't think it's bad for Heaslip going abroad he might aswell go to some place hot and get a tan.

Please don't put Leamy in the same category as Ferris! Over his career, Leamy has played on average 22 games per peason (one more than Heaslip), while Ferris has an average of 11/12 per season.

Leamy has not been 'crap' for Munster in recent years.

Originally Posted by Ciaran-Irl

I'm delighted you're back Conas.

Conas's first post must have been very special

[danthefan]

Originally Posted by Ciaran-Irl

The FAI have other assets they would liquidate first in the incredibly unlikely event that the go bankrupt. Landsdown is due to be paid off fully by IRFU in 2020. In the almost impossible scenario of the FAI selling their stadium share, rugby would just buy it over an extra 15 years.

Was reported in the Sunday Indo today that the IRFU have only €6m left to pay off on Lansdowne, with a huge amount of money coming in from sale of coporate/long term seats.

Also reported on Friday that the IRFU made a profit of €1.7m for the 09/10 season.


But anyway, we can't afford Heaslip, get rid of him