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Flintlock pistol info

  • 29-05-2010 3:38pm
    #1
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 2,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Hey there,

    I was hoping to purchase a flintlock pistol for living history/re-enactment purposes. I was wondering if anyone has any information on where I could purchase such an item and the possible price that I'd have to pay.

    Also I was informed that pre-cartridge firearms (such as a flintlock pistol or musket) do not need a licence for ownership. Is this true?

    Also is a licence required for the purchase of black powder, and is black powder available for purchase in the republic?

    Many thanks to all who can offer any info on the topic :)


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    KonFusion wrote: »
    Hey there,

    Also I was informed that pre-cartridge firearms (such as a flintlock pistol or musket) do not need a licence for ownership. Is this true?

    Also is a licence required for the purchase of black powder, and is black powder available for purchase in the republic?

    you are going to have to pay a pretty penny for a good flintlock pistol, you do not need a license if it is pre 1845. and i don't mean to burst your bubble but there is going to be no way in hell your going to be able to get any black powder down here. black powder falls under the category of explosives and as such you need a good reason for having it and i'm afraid what you want it for would not be a good enough reason. plus the reason you do not need a license for the old flintlocks is because they don't think your going to be shooting them other than the fact firing such an old gun could be quite dangerous.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 2,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭KonFusion


    juice1304 wrote: »
    you are going to have to pay a pretty penny for a good flintlock pistol, you do not need a license if it is pre 1845. and i don't mean to burst your bubble but there is going to be no way in hell your going to be able to get any black powder down here. black powder falls under the category of explosives and as such you need a good reason for having it and i'm afraid what you want it for would not be a good enough reason. plus the reason you do not need a license for the old flintlocks is because they don't think your going to be shooting them other than the fact firing such an old gun could be quite dangerous.

    I was thinking more along the lines of a working reproduction rather than an actual antique. I wouldn't fire an antique as, as you mentioned above, it could be dangerous. Also I wouldn't be actually firing a projectile, it'd just be for show(as in firing with powder but no bullet). But if I can't get black powder, that pretty much settles it :(.

    Thanks for the help.

    Edit: Is pyrodex legal in the republic? (with/without licence?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    KonFusion wrote: »
    I was thinking more along the lines of a working reproduction rather than an actual antique. I wouldn't fire an antique as, as you mentioned above, it could be dangerous. Also I wouldn't be actually firing a projectile, it'd just be for show(as in firing with powder but no bullet). But if I can't get black powder, that pretty much settles it :(.

    Thanks for the help.

    Edit: Is pyrodex legal in the republic? (with/without licence?)

    Sir - Pyrodex is a propellant, and such material, as with any other loading/reloading components, is presently prohibited in the RoI. On the other paw, it is doubtful if many folks have actually heard of it.

    As for the actual flintlock pistol, John Kavanagh at Fingal Sports is the main stockist for the products of Davide Pedersoli, prolly the best and most affordable modern reproductions of flintlock/percussion handguns and long arms. Talk to him about your requirements. That will cost you nothing, and the Pedersoli catalogue is mouth-wateringly beautiful to look through.

    As for actually laying your onw hands on a flintlock handgun, well, I'm told that for the purposes of re-enactment a very few persons in the RoI have been licensed to hold small amounts of black powder for demonstration. Perhaps if you were to join such a group you might also be able to obtain a permit to obtain a suitable handgun and BP. However, it must be said that joining such a group for your own benefit rather than that of the group might raise a few eyebrows, and in the end you may not be Mr Popular Trousers as a result.

    Best wishes

    tac

    BTW - many of us in the rest of the world shoot antique BP firearms. I regularly shoot an 1958 rifle and an 1861 carbine - both perfectly safe and proofed with suitable BP loads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Pyrodex is intresting,as it was made to take the risks away from handling BP.Which is a tricky enough explosive material to handle and transport.However pyrodex wont light well in some BP guns.What it is classified as here in paranoid Ireland is anyones guess,as its UN explosive rating puts it down somwhere below even smokeless prowder.

    There is another way you could get the effect of firing a BP.This is what the re enactor groups had to do in East Germany under Communist rule,so quite the same as living in Ireland these days.:rolleyes:.
    They had a firecracker that was abrasive lit by striking on a rough surface,and chucking it down the repro barrel.Which was litterally a pipe on a bit of wood in a musket shape.As they werent allowed any live firearms either ,unless you were one of Erich Honeckers hunting buddies.So once you had perfected your manual of arms ,you could time it so it looked like you were firing a fusillade of musketry.
    Hair raising to say the least.
    You can tell some old East German re enactors,they are missing in some cases a finger or two or thumb :eek::eek:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Pyrodex is intresting,as it was made to take the risks away from handling BP.Which is a tricky enough explosive material to handle and transport.However pyrodex wont light well in some BP guns.What it is classified as here in paranoid Ireland is anyones guess,as its UN explosive rating puts it down somwhere below even smokeless prowder.

    You are right, Sir. Pyrodex is indeed classed a [very] low-grade propellant, and with an ignition temperature some 250 degrees higher than black powder, it needs hot percussion caps to set it off successfully - trying to use it in a flintlock is a pure waste of time, without a small BP charge in the pan to start things off.

    I've been shooting the stuff since the early 1980's in my BP Ruger Old Army, and have now changed over to Triple 7, a newer forlulation that is sulphur-free, based on sugar beet, if you can believe it. It is more powerful than Pyrodex by about 25%, which means that you use less for the same effective velocity. But instead of the sulphurous BP smell we all love, all we get from Triple 7 is a whiff of the local sugar-beet production plant. The benfits are that it washes out of the guns with water and nothing else, and is about as corrosive as milk.

    I save my BP for my Colt Walker, Whitworth rifle and Musketoon carbine.

    To tell the truth and to risk being asked to leave before I've taken my coat off, I'm pretty certain that the DoJ has never heard of it, or any of the other BP substitutes - all totally safe to store in bulk, as we do over here. I currently have nine different types of powder in my little store, although the BP is stored separately, in accordance with H&S practices. It is, after all, a Class 1 explosive. As such I'm limited to five kilos of the stuff, but with the Whitworth using 90gr per shot, and the Colt Walker using 300gr per six-shot load, it doesn't go far, I can confirm.

    Best

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    To tell the truth and to risk being asked to leave before I've taken my coat off, I'm pretty certain that the DoJ has never heard of it, or any of the other BP substitutes - all totally safe to store in bulk, as we do over here. I currently have nine different types of powder in my little store, although the BP is stored separately, in accordance with H&S practices. It is, after all, a Class 1 explosive. As such I'm limited to five kilos of the stuff, but with the Whitworth using 90gr per shot, and the Colt Walker using 300gr per six-shot load, it doesn't go far, I can confirm.


    tac

    Indeed,they proably havent,and dont want to hear about it either.You are at least living in somplace civillised.Try telling that to a bunch of Burrocrats who consider an international sport to be "combat training" [IE IPSC] therefore it is banned.Of course countries like Zimbabwae where "Combat training" might be more useful to start a revoulition still allow IPSC shooting.:rolleyes:
    Anything that is fired out of a BP firearm,must be BP therefore,the IRA and criminals will make bombs out of it and therefore it is banned.Like fireworks,or rocket motors for kids model rockets.Which you can ship quite happily around Europe by normal mail.Except here
    .Any rifle that isnt a walnut grained bolt action is the work of the Devil,as are handguns and must be banned.
    They used to say Ireland was a backward,priest ridden country.Well it still is backward when it comes to firearms.In that case it is a backward police ridden country.:mad::(

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 2,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭KonFusion


    tac foley wrote: »
    Sir - Pyrodex is a propellant, and such material, as with any other loading/reloading components, is presently prohibited in the RoI. On the other paw, it is doubtful if many folks have actually heard of it.

    As for the actual flintlock pistol, John Kavanagh at Fingal Sports is the main stockist for the products of Davide Pedersoli, prolly the best and most affordable modern reproductions of flintlock/percussion handguns and long arms. Talk to him about your requirements. That will cost you nothing, and the Pedersoli catalogue is mouth-wateringly beautiful to look through.

    As for actually laying your onw hands on a flintlock handgun, well, I'm told that for the purposes of re-enactment a very few persons in the RoI have been licensed to hold small amounts of black powder for demonstration. Perhaps if you were to join such a group you might also be able to obtain a permit to obtain a suitable handgun and BP. However, it must be said that joining such a group for your own benefit rather than that of the group might raise a few eyebrows, and in the end you may not be Mr Popular Trousers as a result.

    Best wishes

    tac

    BTW - many of us in the rest of the world shoot antique BP firearms. I regularly shoot an 1958 rifle and an 1861 carbine - both perfectly safe and proofed with suitable BP loads.

    Many thanks for the info. And with regards to the above in bold, these re-enactments/demonstrations (if successful in obtaining the equipment) will be done while in the employment and at the request of local authorities as part of an upcoming project. So not entirely for my own benefit, it will be in fact part of my job :) But I get your point.

    Edit: Just saw on the Davide Pedersoli site that they sell inert/blank firing rifles (link)
    What restrictions are these subject to?

    Thanks again!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    you just need to get the ok from your local super for inert guns. "as far as i know"


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    KonFusion wrote: »
    Many thanks for the info. And with regards to the above in bold, these re-enactments/demonstrations (if successful in obtaining the equipment) will be done while in the employment and at the request of local authorities as part of an upcoming project. So not entirely for my own benefit, it will be in fact part of my job :) But I get your point.

    Edit: Just saw on the Davide Pedersoli site that they sell inert/blank firing rifles (link)
    What restrictions are these subject to?

    Thanks again!

    Sir - you may care to read the part where it notes that these blank firers use BP as a charge.

    Seems to me that you will still have the little problem of not being to have any amount of BP.

    John at Fingal sports will be able to advise you here, but you are still looking at a large bunch of money, whatever route you take. Perdersoli never made a cheap gun in the whole existece.

    Lots of luck, eh?

    Best

    tac


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    juice1304 wrote: »
    you just need to get the ok from your local super for inert guns. "as far as i know"

    Sir- this is not an 'inert' gun - ie. one that is incapable of firing and projectile or blank charge'. It is an otherwise live firearm that has been altered in the factory to prevent it from firing a projectile, but is still fully funtional in every other respect.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭thermo


    i have a fully functional re-pro brown bess that i have for the purpose of historical re-enactment, it is held on a 12 gauge lecience as when i went to talk to the FO when i described it to him he said its classed as a shotgun as its a smooth bore!


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