Oh gawd!!! Can open, worms everywhere!!!
This was not my intention!
Originally Posted by shay_562
With respect, because I'll acknowledge I have very little experience or knowledge of transgender issues, isn't it just as offensive to dismiss her view because you don't think she's suffered enough pain and discomfort? Or to condemn her feelings and classification of her own genitalia as being 'hate speech' because it's at odds with your view of transgendered genitalia? The problem with transphobic people who dismiss it as 'an inside-out penis' is surely less about the ontology of vaginas and more about the way that they interact with transgendered people - dismissing their feelings, ignoring their opinions of their own bodies and seeking to impose societal norms on them that they don't fit, irrespective of the discomfort caused. Yet that seems to be what you're doing here.
Ok ok ok, I have NOT dismissed her views because I don't think she's suffered enough pain or discomfort!
I know a lot of trans women who don't even feel they have any pain or discomfort with their physical sex and still feel the need to transition anyway, and I do not think they themselves or their reasons are less valid than mine at all!
I respect a person's right to self-identify as well, so many people don't find the terms transgender or transsexual (personally I like transgender) suits them, and some people are deeply offended by other people calling themselves shemales and such because it's supposedly offensive and demeaning to trans identities. But then I've heard from some who think that to prefix a woman with trans is demeaning.
I can only offer that what Bornstein says regarding her genitalia coasts far too close to what transphobic bigots would say for my liking. It has nothing to do with if she's felt the same pain and discomfort I have, I have no way to measure that.
Originally Posted by hare05
I didn't mean to cause offense. I don't define womanhood as being able to reproduce as a woman, but you've gotta admit, if you had the choice...
I'm not belittling transwomen. I simply think the current solution isn't exactly... elegant.
Sure, if I had the choice I'd much rather a fully functional vagina the same as any other woman and have the capacity to get pregnant, and I admit the current solution isn't perfect. But what choice do I have? Continue on with something that I can't even bare to have touched at the best of times, or have it surgically rearranged into something that I would be happy to have?
Surgically constructed vaginas can be perfectly elegant and beautiful, and that is something I would much rather have with the current options that are open to me.
Originally Posted by Johnnymcg
Is it that subjective? I'm genuinely asking here because I don't honestly know!
Yes, I suppose it is subjective.
To play devil's advocate, everything that a trans person is is subjective. How do we defy the genital-obsessed norms of gender definition if we don't look at what makes a man and a woman in subjective terms?