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24-04-2010, 20:21   #16
Sofiztikated
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Oh for the love of GOD!

Get over it. Facebook "campaigns" do next to **** all.

Have you any actual PROOF that VRT is "Illegal?" Links to more than heresay and conjecture?

No?
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24-04-2010, 20:42   #17
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VRT should be the same for all motors, regardless of make/model/year/spec/colour. All it is, is registration of a car on Irish roads with Irish plates.

VRT is far from illegal, but it's the way it's calculated is the problem.

There is/should be free movement of all goods through the Eurozone, and with motors too. Yet, to bring a car into ireland you pay a "tax" for registration instead of a set "fee".
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24-04-2010, 21:23   #18
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Many people are pissed with having to pay extra on a vehicle in the form of another tax. Why shouldn't people want to complain about it? Why should Ireland be different and have to pay it.

We're currently handing out cash to foreign manufacturing companies in the form of scrappage schemes. Yet the comsumer is still being dipped for VRT. It's a a tax that no-one wants FFS, yet there's some people trying to defend it!

You'd wanna be off your head like.
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24-04-2010, 21:25   #19
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As outlined in a recent thread in AH I've been there and done that. I've attached a response from the EU Commission in relation to a number of queries I raised with them.

You'll see from the attached letter that there has been a number cases in relation to the equivalent of vehicle registration in various European countries. Unfortunately the challenges have not been successful to date.

VRT is a tax that the majority of people just pay and, certainly up until recently (prior to the emissions based motor tax system), it's always been just built into the price of a new car - you don't split the cost of a new car down between net, VAT & VRT, instead you just try to bargain with the dealer on the whole price. If you buy a secondhand car it's irrelevant to you. People really only begin to think about it when they are importing a car and you see just how much you're actually paying. Perhaps people are more aware since the introduced of the emissions based system.

What pisses me off is people saying "Well where would we get the money from if we didn't have VRT" - that's completely irrelevant to the legality of VRT. The question is whether the tax is legal or not. Granted there might be a knock on effect to the exchequer if the tax was abolished but that has no relevance to the legality of the tax. What pisses even more is people making sweeping statements that "I'm not paying VRT, it's a stupid tax" etc... If the tax is legal, you pay it - end of.

From the various challenges to similar forms of taxation in other EU countries it would appear that the tax is legal. Personally I think there is a strong legal argument against VRT. OP or anyone else if you really want to challenge VRT then get 250,000 members of your facebook group and get them to contribute €1 each and we'll have our day in the ECJ.

Sorry for the poor quality of attachments - seems to be the only way I could block out my contact details etc...
Attached Images
File Type: png Picture2.png (90.7 KB, 122 views)
File Type: png Picture3.png (140.3 KB, 68 views)
File Type: png Picture4.png (56.7 KB, 49 views)

Last edited by Shane732; 24-04-2010 at 21:28.
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24-04-2010, 21:31   #20
Shane732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
VRT should be the same for all motors, regardless of make/model/year/spec/colour. All it is, is registration of a car on Irish roads with Irish plates.

VRT is far from illegal, but it's the way it's calculated is the problem.

There is/should be free movement of all goods through the Eurozone, and with motors too. Yet, to bring a car into ireland you pay a "tax" for registration instead of a set "fee".
Now if only everyone else in the country could realise this we'd be sorted.

You're bang on.
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24-04-2010, 21:37   #21
Sofiztikated
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Thats more like it, Shane732.

If its legal, then you pays yours taxes.

If its not, and then deemed illegal, then something is done about it. However, however, just creating a group on "de Facebuke" or "de Bebos" won't cut it.

*Take note, I'm not saying it is or is not illegal. I'm going with the "its legal, so it gets paid" route. Don't entirely like the way it is done, but, until its changed, what can you do? And no, I'm not campaigning to get it changed. I have more than enough to do as it is.*
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24-04-2010, 21:57   #22
ligertigon
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He did make one valid point.
Cost of collection is most likely more than revenue received.

Let me give a personal example.

I bought a 95 car on northern plates.
went into vrt office to vrt.
they said €700 as there was no CO2 figure, so applied max.
I used a mpg to CO2 calculator, = €300 vrt.
Bamboozeled official never saw this before (despite its a revenue publication), he said no its €700 but will need to look into it.

4 days later, a 07:45am sting outside my house as I went to work.
I past 3 cars, and stopped for 4th.... customs....
Threatened about fine etc, and told them how THERE side was holding things up.

Result: 4 days later vrt office call to say Toyota Ireland has advised them that the mpg I supplied was correct, thus €300 vrt which I paid.

Please advise me the cost of wages etc for the mornings €300 takings.(which, remember, I contacted them first)

And regards posts about it being tax evasion/legal, why did they not camp outside a working class housing estate? Answer? the people they stop could not afford to pay the fine, so they don't bother. QED
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24-04-2010, 21:58   #23
Eoin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squod View Post
Many people are pissed with having to pay extra on a vehicle in the form of another tax. Why shouldn't people want to complain about it? Why should Ireland be different and have to pay it.

We're currently handing out cash to foreign manufacturing companies in the form of scrappage schemes. Yet the comsumer is still being dipped for VRT. It's a a tax that no-one wants FFS, yet there's some people trying to defend it!
Ireland isn't the only country that has VRT.

People aren't saying that VRT is fair or defending it. They are saying that it's not illegal. Time after time, people bleat on about this "illegal" tax, but I have never been given any link from a reputable source that confirms this. I can dig out a link from the EU saying that Ireland is entitled to charge VRT if you want.

Quote:
So why do you all seem to love paying it?
That's a very childish argument. Accepting a legal, if unfair, tax does not equal "love" paying it.
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24-04-2010, 22:25   #24
It BeeMee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Facebook
HAS THE GOVERNMENT NOT GONE LOW ENOUGH THAT THEY BAIL OUT BANKS FOR BILLIONS BUT THEN TRY TO SCREW HARD WORKING PEOPLE OUT OF THE FEW HUNDRED QUID THEY NEED TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE OR FEED THEIR KIDS?
If people are having problems with this, perhaps changing the car should be lower on the list of priorities....


Quote:
Originally Posted by squod View Post
We're currently handing out cash to foreign manufacturing companies in the form of scrappage schemes. Yet the comsumer is still being dipped for VRT. It's a a tax that no-one wants FFS, yet there's some people trying to defend it!
My understanding is the government rebate is actually a VRT reduction, not a kickback to the manufacturer themselves?
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24-04-2010, 22:27   #25
Guy:Incognito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squod View Post
Many people are pissed with having to pay extra on a vehicle in the form of another tax. Why shouldn't people want to complain about it? Why should Ireland be different and have to pay it.
.
Different from who? Plenty of countries have a system of VRT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eoin View Post
I can dig out a link from the EU saying that Ireland is entitled to charge VRT if you want.


.

If you get a chance to dig that out I could use it eoin , cheers.

Last edited by Guy:Incognito; 24-04-2010 at 22:32.
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24-04-2010, 22:29   #26
Eoin
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Originally Posted by It BeeMee View Post
If people are having problems with this, perhaps changing the car should be lower on the list of priorities....
Or they could just buy a cheap car in Ireland!
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24-04-2010, 22:34   #27
Guy:Incognito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eoin View Post
Or they could just buy a cheap car in Ireland!


They would have to pay motor tax then though.

I assume all these people in the border counties don't head over to buy the more expensive petrol?
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24-04-2010, 22:37   #28
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I really don't care about VRT and this campaign. You can spend anything from €100 to upwards of €1m on a car if you want, nobody is forcing anyone to pay mad VRT amounts. If you are so much against it, don't buy a car, problem solved.
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24-04-2010, 22:42   #29
squod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stekelly View Post
Different from who? Plenty of countries have a system of VRT.
Plenty of countries don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by It BeeMee View Post
My understanding is the government rebate is actually a VRT reduction, not a kickback to the manufacturer themselves?
Doling out money to foreign manufacturers isn't cool in a recession, however they want to put it. The whole VRT argument from the government has to be seen with some perspective is about all I'm saying.

They can choose to reduce VRT (rebate you've mentioned) or provide incentives to foreign manufacturers, as a way of controlling the market.
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24-04-2010, 22:45   #30
ligertigon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdum View Post
I really don't care about VRT and this campaign. You can spend anything from €100 to upwards of €1m on a car if you want, nobody is forcing anyone to pay mad VRT amounts. If you are so much against it, don't buy a car, problem solved.

Not true
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