Dublin Bus Network Review - Page 280 - boards.ie
Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
20-12-2011, 11:40   #4186
littlejp
Registered User
 
littlejp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxflyer View Post
I'm afraid you're wrong.
All I know is I got on the bus (122) the first time. Asked for Camden St. and was told €1.20.
Got the bus this morning and said €1.20 and the driver said that would get me to Leonard's Corner.

My other point stands. The Fare Stages system is crap. It's very confusing and could be replaced with a flat fare.
littlejp is offline  
Advertisement
20-12-2011, 11:57   #4187
Dodge
Registered User
 
Dodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,655
I'd prefer zones to flat fares

The stages thing is ridiculous
Dodge is offline  
Thanks from:
20-12-2011, 12:04   #4188
lxflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejp View Post
All I know is I got on the bus (122) the first time. Asked for Camden St. and was told €1.20.
Got the bus this morning and said €1.20 and the driver said that would get me to Leonard's Corner.

My other point stands. The Fare Stages system is crap. It's very confusing and could be replaced with a flat fare.
Well luckily for you the 122 driver was also confused - the fare to Camden Street is €1.65, and the 68 driver is correct.

As posted here before it does not help that stage points are not indicated as such on the actual bus stops themselves.

A flat fare really is impractical for Dublin given the length of some journeys - it would result in some people paying far more and others far less. It would be far better to have a zonal structure.
lxflyer is offline  
Thanks from:
20-12-2011, 12:24   #4189
markpb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 6,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxflyer View Post
A flat fare really is impractical for Dublin given the length of some journeys - it would result in some people paying far more and others far less. It would be far better to have a zonal structure.
Why is it impractical for Dublin but okay for other, larger cities?

LA Metro charge a flat fare of $1.50 per trip, with a longest bus route being 43km.
New York MTA charges a flat fare of $2.25 per trip.
Paris RATP buses charge a flat fare of €1.70.

Personally I'd be in favour of a two zone system (inside and outside the M50) but flat fares have a lot going for them.

Last edited by markpb; 20-12-2011 at 12:27.
markpb is offline  
Thanks from:
20-12-2011, 12:37   #4190
lxflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
It's impractical either due to the farebox revenue shortfall that would result from longer journeys being cheaper or the flat fare being too expensive for lower fare customers.

Either way given the fact that the subsidy is falling the company cannot afford a further farebox shortfall.

Believe me I'd love a flat fare but given the current economic climate I do not think the company could afford the risk of farebox income falling.

A minimum 2-zone fare structure would be my ideal solution.

Last edited by lxflyer; 20-12-2011 at 12:40.
lxflyer is offline  
Advertisement
20-12-2011, 12:52   #4191
KD345
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 818
It sounds like the driver on the 122 pressed the stage point too early. littlejp's post does highlight the discrepancies in the fare system in that area. For example, why is there a stage point called "Kellys Corner (Camden Street)"? Surely it should read either Harrington Street or Camden Street, there is no stop at Kellys Corner.

Also, while littlejp's post might be incorrect, there are some fare differences in the Dolphins Barn, Inchicore and Drimnagh area.

On route 68, it is 7 stages between SCR and College Green, on the 123 it is just 5, even though passengers board at the same bus stops. This continues on the 123 into parts of Drimnagh, where the 122 is more expensive to travel to the city centre than the 123.

It's cheaper to travel from Hawkins Street to Tyrconnell Road in Inchicore on Route 69 than it is on Route 68. Even though you board and alight at the exact same stops.

The journey between Dolphin's Barn and Kevin Street (4 stages) is more expensive if you use the 27 or 151. It's only classed as 3 stages on Route 77A, again even boarding at the same stops.

There are many more examples across the network. The stage system does not work, it's confusing for passengers, confusing for drivers and does not encourage anybody to take a bus in Dublin.
KD345 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
20-12-2011, 12:53   #4192
markpb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 6,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxflyer View Post
It's impractical either due to the farebox revenue shortfall that would result from longer journeys being cheaper or the flat fare being too expensive for lower fare customers.
So basically, it's perfect right now and we shouldn't every try to change it? We've reached the pinnacle in customer fairness and maximum farebox revenue.

Just like using middle doors (works elsewhere but it wouldn't work in Dublin apparently), selling bus-bus transfers on board, selling rail-bus or bus-rail transfers (only one or two routes in the entire city do this), showing timetables with intermediate stop times (works almost everywhere else but not possible in Dublin because we have congestion unlike NYC, Paris or LA), putting route maps online (only happened in 2010), putting audio and visual displays onboard buses, selling tickets at bus stops (other than the airport), etc, etc. The list is endless and everyone is full of reasons why we couldn't even consider them.

Some day I'll find out why it is that all these things are possible all round the world but are impossible for Dublin Bus.
markpb is offline  
(2) thanks from:
20-12-2011, 13:06   #4193
lxflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpb View Post
So basically, it's perfect right now and we shouldn't every try to change it? We've reached the pinnacle in customer fairness and maximum farebox revenue.

Just like using middle doors (works elsewhere but it wouldn't work in Dublin apparently), selling bus-bus transfers on board, selling rail-bus or bus-rail transfers (only one or two routes in the entire city do this), showing timetables with intermediate stop times (works almost everywhere else but not possible in Dublin because we have congestion unlike NYC, Paris or LA), putting route maps online (only happened in 2010), putting audio and visual displays onboard buses, selling tickets at bus stops (other than the airport), etc, etc. The list is endless and everyone is full of reasons why we couldn't even consider them.

Some day I'll find out why it is that all these things are possible all round the world but are impossible for Dublin Bus.
Now you are misrepresenting what I said.

I didn't say it was perfect by any means nor did I suggest retaining the status quo - in fact I suggested a zonal fare structure would be better. Anything that is simpler than the staged fare system.

The risk of implementing a flat fare is a drop in farebox revenue and right now the company cannot afford that as that will only mean reductions in services (however desireable it is).
lxflyer is offline  
20-12-2011, 14:02   #4194
AlekSmart
Registered User
 
AlekSmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejp View Post
All I know is I got on the bus (122) the first time. Asked for Camden St. and was told €1.20.
Got the bus this morning and said €1.20 and the driver said that would get me to Leonard's Corner.

My other point stands. The Fare Stages system is crap. It's very confusing and could be replaced with a flat fare.
And so it continues......this is an issue which is going to explode all over thgese boards come Jan 1st as those cash-fare payers who remain unaware of Leap (There are THOUSANDS in this bracket) suddenly find themselves in confrontation with a Busdriver who actually knows his/her stages.

For example in Littlejp's case the €1.20 he currently pays is incorrect.
As he/she is boarding between a Stage Point the fare is calculated from the preceeding stage,thus this is a 4 stage fare and it's €1.65.

Now,fast-forward to Jan 1 and little jp meets a grumpy sod of a Driver who knows it's a 4 stage fare and seks payment of €1.90...cue littlejp being taken-aback and seeking a full & frank explanation from the GSOAD....multiply this scenario by 100,1000,10,000 and you can see TROUBLE.

ALL because Dublin Bus removed the actual Stage Identification some years back and allowed the process of guesswork,rumour and innuendo to replace it.

Many of today's Drivers have NEVER seen an actual Stage Marking in their entire career,yet,they ostensibly operate a Fare-Stage system....how ?...Black Magic and guesswork I'd suggest.

KD345's post underlines the futility of referring to the TimeTable book,currently the only means available to a customer of identifying Stage Points,as it is full of ambiguities and folksy descriptions of premises and places long gone.

It gets back to the basics...if we cannot start at A,B,C...then there's little point in splitting the Atom on the platform of a 122 ?

Identify the Fare Stages NOW....not sometime is Q2 2012,after we've lost a few hundred more pasengers due to confrontational issues,and €1.20 going to €1.90 IS just such an issue...believe me !
AlekSmart is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
20-12-2011, 14:20   #4195
Jaysoose
Closed Account
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmaniJeanss View Post
There was also probably an element of politicing in the move to run the 38A through the village as a replacement 39.

Castlecurragh, Warrenstown, Corduff and Waterville would be low voter turnout people, with a large amount of unregister (for voting purposes) foreigners who wouldn't know who to ring or complain to, Those in the area that do vote would tend to be Joe Higgins or Sinn Fein voters, i.e. politicians with no actual power or link to power.
Whereas the people of Blanchardstown Village and surrounding areas would be more organised, a higher proprtion registered and knowing how things work, and a more traditional centre-ist voting history.

So a bus service that was functioning perfectly well was altered to suit the few people that knew who and where to complain at the expense of the majority. This is pretty much the opposite of improving something, the service has actually declined in this case yet the network direct lads are all sitting around in meetings with deskbound managers talking about how innovative the whole process has been and how great they all are when the customer has less options less frequently.

Dublin bus is a disgrace.
Jaysoose is offline  
20-12-2011, 14:23   #4196
markpb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 6,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmaniJeanss View Post
Castlecurragh, Warrenstown, Corduff and Waterville would be low voter turnout people, with a large amount of unregister (for voting purposes) foreigners who wouldn't know who to ring or complain to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysoose View Post
So a bus service that was functioning perfectly well was altered to suit the few people that knew who and where to complain at the expense of the majority
Jesus, there's enough legitimate complaints about ND and DB without having to fantasise and dream up some!
markpb is offline  
20-12-2011, 15:09   #4197
lxflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysoose View Post
So a bus service that was functioning perfectly well was altered to suit the few people that knew who and where to complain at the expense of the majority. This is pretty much the opposite of improving something, the service has actually declined in this case yet the network direct lads are all sitting around in meetings with deskbound managers talking about how innovative the whole process has been and how great they all are when the customer has less options less frequently.

Dublin bus is a disgrace.
How reliable is the 38/a/b now?

Given you (rightly) complained about it before the timetable has changed you have never posted about it since. Can we take it buses are showing up when they should?
lxflyer is offline  
20-12-2011, 15:28   #4198
ArmaniJeanss
Registered User
 
ArmaniJeanss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Looking for an important part of my brain somewher
Posts: 7,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpb View Post
Jesus, there's enough legitimate complaints about ND and DB without having to fantasise and dream up some!
It has been hinted locally that political power in Blanchardstown ('having a big TD in the area') helped the decision. It may be rubbish, but there has to be an explanation of why X hundred people were (without consulatation) given an improved service at the expense of another X hundred people being given a lesser service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lxflyer View Post
How reliable is the 38/a/b now?

Given you (rightly) complained about it before the timetable has changed you have never posted about it since. Can we take it buses are showing up when they should?
Reliability is important but its not the only factor. At an extreme level if there was only five 46As a day and they took 3 scheduled hours for the journey they could have 100% timetable reliability but it would be a completely crap service.

Telling us on the 38A that we now have reliability when it's clearly a hugely inferior service vis a vis what we had up until September 2010 is disengenuous speak at its best.
ArmaniJeanss is offline  
20-12-2011, 15:39   #4199
lxflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmaniJeanss View Post
Reliability is important but its not the only factor. At an extreme level if there was only five 46As a day and they took 3 scheduled hours for the journey they could have 100% timetable reliability but it would be a completely crap service.

Telling us on the 38A that we now have reliability when it's clearly a hugely inferior service vis a vis what we had up until September 2010 is disengenuous speak at its best.
I was simply asking the question?

Don't bite my head off - I'm not "telling" you anything.

I just wanted to know if the service was reliable or not since the last timetable change?
lxflyer is offline  
20-12-2011, 16:02   #4200
ArmaniJeanss
Registered User
 
ArmaniJeanss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Looking for an important part of my brain somewher
Posts: 7,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxflyer View Post
I was simply asking the question?

Don't bite my head off - I'm not "telling" you anything.

I just wanted to know if the service was reliable or not since the last timetable change?
I basically never get the 38 so can't comment.

When going into town I try to only use the 38B where possible . It's very reliable though it has suffered with some road works going on in Mulhuddart village which has sent the bulk of traffic through Castlecurragh/Warrenstown causing a jam here, so it probably seems very hit and miss for the likes of Jaysoose in Warrenstown.

Coming home the odd one 38A seems to go missing completely, but no more than one a month. I'd consider it very reliable and the 'new' Blanch section doesn't add on too much at my time anyway (7PM ish).

The 38A from Damastown. Its probably reliable as such, it seems to turn up on time when I use it. It is not a good service though, as I've explained in this thread and others it can as little as 5 or 6 minutes or as much as 20+ minutes to do the 'new' Blanch section as the traffic flow, lights and road configuration is against it making speedy progress.

Personally when my only choice is a 38A on a weekday (i.e., after 8.36AM) I've got into the habit of getting a taxi from Warrenstown to the first busstop after Auburn Avenue. Around €7, then get the first 39A, 70 etc which comes along. The 38A is that bad that I can justify €7 to avoid it.

Dublin Bus have done a lot right on this route, they are close to having it perfect. Just need to scrap the one mistake.
ArmaniJeanss is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet