[lubie76]

I watched this last night and felt there was some really strong arguments put forward about anti hunting, etc. The Hunting Ward Union and RISE came across as really backward old men with too much time and moneyon their hands. They had the cheek to say they were representing the rural community of Ireland. I was delighted to hear the majority of farmers seemed also against the hunts.

I felt the puppy farming legislation benefits weren't highlighted as much as they should have and maybe some shocking footage or stats would have got the point across better. It turned into an argument about breeders not being able to afford the registration fee rather than the cruelty to animals. Somone made an excellent point that breeders should be delighted that the restrictions are coming in as it would be of benefit to them if they were a genuine breeder by weeding out the people just breeding masses of unhealthy puppies.

[star-pants]

Incase people didn't see it - here's the blog entry on the RTÉ website describing what the show was to be about:

The Greens are often pushed by journalists to say what concrete achievements they can boast after nearly three years in office. Well if all goes according to plan one small but highly emotive change is about to take place with the Wildlife Amendement bill 2010 which will ban stag hunting in Ireland. In practice that means banning the hunt of the Meath-based Ward Union - the only stag hunt in Ireland and long a sore point with animal rights and anti-blood sport groups. John Gormley is also about to introduce tighter regulations on dog breeding which many of those involved with coursing and even greyhound racing see as an attack on their sports.

Of course this all forms part of a highly complex and deeply felt division between, on the one hand, environmentalists and animal welfare groups, and on the other many rural dwellers represented by groups like RISE (Rural Ireland Says Enough), who believe that the Greens in particular are out to destroy their way of life. They feel these new measures will lead on to bans on fox hunting on coursing and attacks on fishing and even horse racing. Consequently, some rural FF backbenchers are privately very unhappy at having to support John Gormley's measures.

At the same time many animal welfare groups say the measures don't go far enough - they're particularly disappointed that there are no specific measures to ban hare coursing or fox hunting.

On tonight's The Frontline we'll debate animal rights and rural Ireland. We'll be joined by Mairead McGuinness MEP (who opposes John Gormley's measures) by Niall O Brollachain of the Greens who believes they are reasonable and necessary, and by a wide range of interested individuals and groups on both sides of the argument.

[CreedonsDogDayc]

video link here of the show http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1069191

[Orla K]

To be honest that debate was awful in the sense that it was very biased, even Pat Kenny was biased, who I would have thought would have stayed neutral considering he was the chair.

I really watched it to find out about the actual bill and for me their wasn't enough actual information. I know it was more a points of view type of thing but I just thought I'd find out more about the bill.


If anyone wants to read it you can find it to download here

I think I'll spend tomorrow reading it (it'll probably take me a week to read it)

[Discodog]

Whilst the DBEB is important it is also a precursor the the Animal Welfare Bill that is only a few months away. The DBEB did not get specific coverage because the program wanted to focus on the complaints from the Greyhound & Hunt lobby who are seeking exclusions.

The DBEB will take anyone 20 mins to read. It is very simple & only effects people who have a six or more breeding bitches. The main complaint from animal lovers is that it does not define standards such as amount of space, food exercise etc. These will be addressed by the AWB.

As with any legislation there are some compromises but it is the first proper welfare legislation since 1911.

[cucoigcrice]

I just watched the debate if you want to call it that!!! I feel that it was very one sided and i feel that the people whom spoke on the pro hunting side were in fact the wrong people for the job.
My feelings lie as follows: i dont mind people hunting i.e. fishing, shooting, coursing but i dont agree with digging of animals while in hiding. I am a big lover of greyhounds and i see quite alot of them and 9 out of 10 are keep in good conditions and are given all the necessary requirement, food, water, warmth and shelter and quite often love. It annoyed me to see that one women said that she see greyhound with there ears cut off and in river etc, i have only seen this once and i know that greyhound owners and breeders would also be annoyed at that. People that do that to their greyhounds are not true greyhound men and women. Alot of greyhounds are now rehomed and owners and trainor pay to get them rehomed and even sent to italy where pictures are sent back from their new homes to the old trainor etc. Geyhoung enjoy track racing and coursing and not one hare was harmed in this years coursing meetings, they are also inspected by vets.
With regards to puppy farming i dont agree with however i am sure there are good breeders out there whom abide by the rules but it is unfortunate to tar them all with the same brush!!

[johngalway]

It was rubbish as a debate. The anti hunting lot just shouted down anything they didn't agree with. Which was most things.

One point not mentioned too much was raised about an anti hunting guy who marched with an iffy crowd from the UK who wear balaclavas and advocate violence and criminal damage to further their aims.

[Discodog]

Originally Posted by cucoigcrice

i see quite alot of them and 9 out of 10 are keep in good conditions and are given all the necessary requirement, food, water, warmth and shelter and quite often love.

and not one hare was harmed in this years coursing meetings, they are also inspected by vets.

So who do you think is responsible for the 10,000 dead Greyhounds found on a farm in England ?. Or the thousands that turn up in Irish rescues in an appalling state ?. Or my own Greyhound who I found battered, bruised & starving on the streets of Galway.

As a "Greyhound man" please tell us what happens to all the puppies that are born every year that are not good enough to race ?. The "Industry" admits that thousands are born every year but only a small percentage become good racers so where are the rest ?. We should be seeing them everywhere as common pets but we don't, so where are they ?.

You may believe no Hares are harmed. There are several videos of youtube that show the opposite including a very recent one. If I took you & got a couple of muzzled Tigers to chase you (with boots on their paws !) you might survive but what would it feel like ?. The Hare's nervous system works just like yours.

[cucoigcrice]

Originally Posted by Discodog

So who do you think is responsible for the 10,000 dead Greyhounds found on a farm in England ?. Or the thousands that turn up in Irish rescues in an appalling state ?. Or my own Greyhound who I found battered, bruised & starving on the streets of Galway.

As a "Greyhound man" please tell us what happens to all the puppies that are born every year that are not good enough to race ?. The "Industry" admits that thousands are born every year but only a small percentage become good racers so where are the rest ?. We should be seeing them everywhere as common pets but we don't, so where are they ?.

You may believe no Hares are harmed. There are several videos of youtube that show the opposite including a very recent one. If I took you & got a couple of muzzled Tigers to chase you (with boots on their paws !) you might survive but what would it feel like ?. The Hare's nervous system works just like yours.

Ok Discodog,
I thoughout that the debate was actually about Ireland i didnt think England was taken into account!!! Am I right?? May I ask what you define as appalling state, and no i am not being smart.

As my last post said I did not say all greyhound owners/trainer are bad, but like anywhere or anything you dont get 1 or 2 that dont do it by the book, like puppy farmers!

And as for your "greyhound man" (i included women too, not being sexest) that were in brackets, there are puupies born every year. The one's that i see are all vaccinated, wormed, flea treatments given etc from pups on. If they are not racers quite alot i have seen are actually rehomed in italy, sweden and some are left with the rehoming shelters. In fairness there are some people that can get a greyhound and the dog falls into the wrong hands ( i am not refairing to greyhound men/women ), this is when they are treated badly and home jobs are done, i.e. stitching etc. The reason we dont see them as common companion animals is becasue the public have a bad proception of this breed, in my opinion and through seeing them in family homes etc they are relaxed, couch potatoes whom love to sleep alot.

With regards to hares being injured, i have looked up you tube and seen alot of video many of which are not recent, i did see one recent one of the hare in a pen, however it didnt show where the pen was!!! Was it at a couring meeting at all, and once again i am not being smart, its just that it could have been filmed else where.

Many people will say that this a tradition, (not me saying that) and that it has been going on for centuries!!!

[Discodog]

Originally Posted by cucoigcrice

Ok Discodog,
I thoughout that the debate was actually about Ireland i didnt think England was taken into account!!! Am I right?? May I ask what you define as appalling state, and no i am not being smart.


And as for your "greyhound man" (i included women too, not being sexest) that were in brackets, there are puupies born every year. The one's that i see are all vaccinated, wormed, flea treatments given etc from pups on. If they are not racers quite alot i have seen are actually rehomed in italy, sweden and some are left with the rehoming shelters. In fairness there are some people that can get a greyhound and the dog falls into the wrong hands ( i am not refairing to greyhound men/women ), this is when they are treated badly and home jobs are done, i.e. stitching etc. The reason we dont see them as common companion animals is becasue the public have a bad proception of this breed, in my opinion and through seeing them in family homes etc they are relaxed, couch potatoes whom love to sleep alot.

With regards to hares being injured, i have looked up you tube and seen alot of video many of which are not recent, i did see one recent one of the hare in a pen, however it didnt show where the pen was!!! Was it at a couring meeting at all, and once again i am not being smart, its just that it could have been filmed else where.

Many people will say that this a tradition, (not me saying that) and that it has been going on for centuries!!!

The majority of the dead dogs found in Yorkshire were Irish dogs according to the man who killed them. A high percentage of Irish dogs race & die in England. Two were killed recently during a meet at Belle Vue Manchester just as Snip Nua, Dara O'Briain's dog was killed at Harold's Cross.

Just google any Irish Greyhound rescue if you want an explanation of "an appalling state". It can mean covered in maggot infested sores, starved, or in the case of my girl lacerated from barbed wire & rusty corrugated iron.

The RSPCA estimate that 20 Greyhounds a day just disappear. If you take the breeding figures & then subtract the rehoming figures there is a huge discrepancy. My Greyhound was never registered (tattooed). There are thousands like her & they are ignored by the industry.

A tiny percentage get re-homed abroad. The only thing that you are correct about is the public perception of Greyhounds but all the public see is them muzzled & chasing other animals. The bad PR is not the fault of the Greyhound.

As for dying Hares this was filmed at this years coursing final in Clonmel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTi2k...&feature=email

[cucoigcrice]

Originally Posted by Discodog

The majority of the dead dogs found in Yorkshire were Irish dogs according to the man who killed them. A high percentage of Irish dogs race & die in England. Two were killed recently during a meet at Belle Vue Manchester just as Snip Nua, Dara O'Briain's dog was killed at Harold's Cross.

Just google any Irish Greyhound rescue if you want an explanation of "an appalling state". It can mean covered in maggot infested sores, starved, or in the case of my girl lacerated from barbed wire & rusty corrugated iron.

The RSPCA estimate that 20 Greyhounds a day just disappear. If you take the breeding figures & then subtract the rehoming figures there is a huge discrepancy. My Greyhound was never registered (tattooed). There are thousands like her & they are ignored by the industry.

A tiny percentage get re-homed abroad. The only thing that you are correct about is the public perception of Greyhounds but all the public see is them muzzled & chasing other animals. The bad PR is not the fault of the Greyhound.

As for dying Hares this was filmed at this years coursing final in Clonmel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTi2k...&feature=email

Yes Irish dogs, probably breed over her and sold to England!!!
with regards to "Snip Nua" she was actually euthanised due to a broken leg at Mullingar track sustained in a race. I does not unfortunaetly state where the break actualy was i.e what bone so it is hard to judge. I know it is a shame that the dogs leg was not amputated etc but its just like any other pet dog owner if they dont want to get it repaired they dont have too. I'm am not saying i agree with this!!

Are you sure your dog is full greyhound as all greyhounds are ear marked as young pups. I'm just saying that it may have been from a lurcher as they sometimes breed with greyhounds, but that is a differnet topic all together.

The way alot of greyhound owners think and say now is that the better the dog is looked after the better it will run. I agree with this statement, i feel that if a dog is not fed,watered,given warmth and a clean please to live it will not have an interest in running. I know a women whom rehomed a greyhound from another greyhound man. This women moved the dog into her living room and treas him like a baby and he did win races for her. Since then he has recieved and injury and can no longer race however he is still siting comfy infront of the fire!!!

The way i think of these things with regards to euthanising any animal is that if it is done professionally like many are i dont seem to feel as bad. Around my area several years ago there were dogs being hung from tree's (not greyhounds), i feel that if they wanted the dog to be put to sleep why didnt they bring it to the vets and have it done correctly.

With regards to the greyhounds being rehomed abroad i can count a large number i know of that have been rehomed in both sweden and italy and the numbers are growing.

[BryanL]

Originally Posted by Discodog

As for dying Hares this was filmed at this years coursing final in Clonmel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTi2k...&feature=email

That video is now part of a criminal investigation by the Gardai as it was staged.

As this footage shows!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t65K6OhwPI

[Discodog]

It shows nothing & the whole video will show much more. At 0:58 seconds the Hare takes a severe impact - it isn't just teeth that cause damage. A 25 kg Greyhound running flat out packs a big punch. When playing my girl has taken my legs away with ease.

This video has now been seen by wildlife experts including a leading European wildlife veterinary teaching hospital. Their view is that the Hare either sustained a spinal injury or a trauma to a major blood vessel possible in the brain.

No one that I have shown the video to can see any evidence of the supposed wire.

But this does raise an interesting issue in that the ICC say that the video must be fake as filming is not allowed & this begs the question why not ?. What are they trying to hide ?. If everything was above board surely one would welcome filming ?.

[Discodog]

Originally Posted by cucoigcrice

Yes Irish dogs, probably breed over her and sold to England!!!
with regards to "Snip Nua" she was actually euthanised due to a broken leg at Mullingar track sustained in a race. I does not unfortunaetly state where the break actualy was i.e what bone so it is hard to judge. I know it is a shame that the dogs leg was not amputated etc but its just like any other pet dog owner if they dont want to get it repaired they dont have too. I'm am not saying i agree with this!!

Are you sure your dog is full greyhound as all greyhounds are ear marked as young pups. I'm just saying that it may have been from a lurcher as they sometimes breed with greyhounds, but that is a differnet topic all together.

The way alot of greyhound owners think and say now is that the better the dog is looked after the better it will run. I agree with this statement, i feel that if a dog is not fed,watered,given warmth and a clean please to live it will not have an interest in running. I know a women whom rehomed a greyhound from another greyhound man. This women moved the dog into her living room and treas him like a baby and he did win races for her. Since then he has recieved and injury and can no longer race however he is still siting comfy infront of the fire!!!

The way i think of these things with regards to euthanising any animal is that if it is done professionally like many are i dont seem to feel as bad. Around my area several years ago there were dogs being hung from tree's (not greyhounds), i feel that if they wanted the dog to be put to sleep why didnt they bring it to the vets and have it done correctly.

With regards to the greyhounds being rehomed abroad i can count a large number i know of that have been rehomed in both sweden and italy and the numbers are growing.

Snip was just one of many dogs that die whilst racing but we do not know the total number because it is kept secret. You cannot tell me how many dogs are rehomed because that is also a secret. So how about the number of puppies bred or the number put down ?. Yes more secrets.

Now I always thought that one would want to spread good news & if the industry is as good as you say then why keep the numbers secret ?. Even the minutes of the welfare meetings are secret. All this secrecy from an industry that gets €12 million of our money. Surely we are entitled to see how our money is spent.

Do you think that it is acceptable to ship the industry's problems overseas ?. You say that the Irish will not accept Greyhounds as pets so why breed dogs that you cannot rehome here ?.

You say that some owners are OK because they pamper their Greyhounds yet they are happy for their beloved dogs to run a high risk of injury.

One thing that is not a secret is that Greyhound owners give a paltry 2% of their prize fund to Greyhound welfare which shows how much they value the dogs.

[cucoigcrice]

Originally Posted by BryanL

That video is now part of a criminal investigation by the Gardai as it was staged.

As this footage shows!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t65K6OhwPI

I seen this footage today and i am completely disgusted that people whom supposably care for animals rights can injury a hare!!! I will never support the anti's no matter what as they are hipocrites. My anger increases every time i watch this disgusting act of cruetly-- by anti's of all people. I hope the garda investigation brings these thugs, whom call themsevels animal lovers, to justice!!!