[dunleakelleher]

Originally Posted by Rev Hellfire

This wasn't limited to the catholic church but was a symptom of Irish society at the time, the Irish church merely reflected Irish cultural norms for the time.

I disagree. True paedophilia happened all over the world since time began but the systematic cover up, protection and facilitation of paedophiles members of and organisation by the superiors of that organisation seems only to be the realm of Roman Catholics all over the world

It seems now the letter the pope was meant to issue to the victims is now postponed due to
"similar scandals which have come to light in his own country, Germany - including one in the very town where he taught at the university and where his brother was choirmaster of a famous boys' choir."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/8572875.stm

I can only see one common denominator here. The Roman catholic church.

[Stephentlig]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

But if he tries to argue that he should keep his job despite admitting to what you say is a major blunder then surely the position of the catholic church in Ireland is that the rules should apply to no one?

I'm sure the Catholic Church would be confident that the rule would apply to those who did it with malicious intent.

but thats not the case with Cardinal Sean Brady

the state should also consider making a law that anyone who fails to act in the future and did so with malicious intent should be made resign.

Pax Christi
Stephen<3

[Bduffman]

Originally Posted by Outrage

Do you honestly believe that the Church cares what a bunch of holier-than-thou Irish Times readers think? You should read the Cardinal's speech from yesterday: a very humbling and moving collection of words.

No, I don't believe they care about anything anyone outside what the church thinks. Which is fair enough. But being supported by a small minority of the population as some sort of justification for him staying a a cardinal (and indeed for him not being investigated by the authorities) frankly smacks of a desperate bunker mentality.

[Glenster]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

But if he tries to argue that he should keep his job despite admitting to what you say is a major blunder then surely the position of the catholic church in Ireland is that the rules should apply to no one?

The position of the catholic church is that everyone can find forgiveness. He's not some petty elected politician, he's different. A political party only cares about it's image, if there's even a whiff of a scandal and they can get away with it they'll jettison someone so fast....., one would hope the catholic church cares more about doing what is morally right.

If the Holy see thinks it's better that he steps down, you'd better believe that he'll step down. Maybe it would be better for the world if he atoned for his sins by cleaning up the Irish Church. Maybe not.

Then again, maybe we all just smell blood and want to see a hanging.

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

I'm sure the Catholic Church would be confident that the rule would apply to those who did it with malicious intent.

but thats not the case with Cardinal Sean Brady

the state should also consider making a law that anyone who fails to act in the future and did so with malicious intent should be made resign.

Pax Christi
Stephen<3

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. That's we already have a law against withholding information from the gardai about a crime, it's called perverting the course of justice.

[Glenster]

Originally Posted by dunleakelleher

I can only see one common denominator here. The Roman catholic church.

I've cracked it! Working off your investigation into common demoninators I've done some of my own research.

The one strand that keeps popping up in all instances of Child molestation,
in every corner of the earth,

in every situation,

involving girls and boys,

is,




Paedophiles.



Ban paedophiles and we can stop all child molestation. Simples.

Not that simple? What do you mean?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Glenster

The position of the catholic church is that everyone can find forgiveness. He's not some petty elected politician, he's different. A political party only cares about it's image, if there's even a whiff of a scandal and they can get away with it they'll jettison someone so fast....., one would hope the catholic church cares more about doing what is morally right.

That's absolutely hilarious. The catholic church did everything they possibly could to obstruct these investigations, making people swear oaths of secrecy is just the tip of the iceberg. Even today we're still finding out what happened in dribs and drabs because they're still keeping their mouths shut. The hierarchy of the catholic church did not behave the way it did because it cares about what's morally right, it did what it did to protect its image at all costs. The most laughable thing I've heard in this whole fiasco is when they suggested that the tax payer should pick up the bill for the high priced lawyers that they employed to try to get out of admitting anything, followed closely by the suggestion that the people should pay the costs themselves. At least a normal rapist doesn't ask you to pay them afterwards.

Originally Posted by Glenster

If the Holy see thinks it's better that he steps down, you'd better believe that he'll step down. Maybe it would be better for the world if he atoned for his sins by cleaning up the Irish Church. Maybe not.

Then again, maybe we all just smell blood and want to see a hanging.

with the revelations that are now coming out in Germany, it looks to me like if the holy see came out and publicly said he should step down his own position would be at risk.

[Stephentlig]

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Agreed, but the man who never made a mistake never made anything.

That's we already have a law against withholding information from the gardai about a crime, it's called perverting the course of justice.

then why werent the gardai and Hse (whom the media unveiled) who failed to act in such cases in the past made resign? this is something we must look at also.

Cardinal Sean Brady assures us that he didnt do it with malicious intent and he doesnt see why he should resign. I'm in agreement with him there.

Pax Christi
Stephen<3

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

Agreed, but the man who never made a mistake never made anything.

But a real man owns up to his mistakes and faces the consequences

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

then why werent the gardai and Hse (whom the media unveiled) who failed to act in such cases in the past made resign? this is something we must look at also.

I totally agree.

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

Cardinal Sean Brady assures us that he didnt do it with malicious intent and he doesnt see why he should resign. I'm in agreement with him there.

Pax Christi
Stephen<3

If we decide that it's acceptable to see that children are being systematically raped and do nothing to stop it as long as you have good intentions, what's to stop this all happening again?

[Stephentlig]

But a real man owns up to his mistakes and faces the consequences

which Cardinal Sean Brady did, he owned up to his mistake, but seeing as it was a mistake and not something done with malicious intent I cant see why he should resign.

If we decide that it's acceptable to see that children are being systematically raped and do nothing to stop it as long as you have good intentions, what's to stop this all happening again?

Nobody said it was acceptable, Cardinal Sean Brady over the years has taken great measures to assure us it would never happen again.

Look at it this way, how would you like it if you were sentenced to prison for 11 years for failing to act in a situation were you did not act with malicious intent?

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

which Cardinal Sean Brady did, he owned up to his mistake, but seeing as it was a mistake and not something done with malicious intent I cant see why he should resign.

Do you think that a drink driver should escape punishment on the basis that they didn't intend to run someone over?

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

Nobody said it was acceptable, Cardinal Sean Brady over the years has taken great measures to assure us it would never happen again.

Look at it this way, how would you like it if you were sentenced to prison for 11 years for failing to act in a situation were you did not act with malicious intent?

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

That would depend on the circumstances. I'm sure you've heard of culpable negligence.

[goat2]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/con...cardinal-brady

Priests support Cardinal Brady
they would

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

listening to the popes speech last evening on sky news

he mentioned the word repent
who did he mean should repent
shurely not the people these deadly crimes were comitted against
what should they repent for

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

Look at it this way, how would you like it if you were sentenced to prison for 11 years for failing to act in a situation were you did not act with malicious intent?

I would not like to go to prison.
However, I would not swear children to an oath of silence whilst standing by (for 18 years) and watching a serial rapist continue unpunished!

[Stephentlig]

Do you think that a drink driver should escape punishment on the basis that they didn't intend to run someone over?

Yes of course, but there are enough warnings out there for him to realise that by drinking and driving and by getting behind that wheel he was already being malicious in his intent, and would of known that the end result would of been that he would run someone over.

That would depend on the circumstances. I'm sure you've heard of culpable negligence.

and it also depends on Cardinal Bradys circumstances of which we are not quite clear of including myself for that matter, and I'm only going on what I have.

you've certainly given me food for thought as to whether the Cardinal should resign or not, there are many Priests within the diocese that are split on the idea of whether he should or not.

I'm turning to God at the moment with prayer for justice to be done, I also probably think its too early for anyone to make any judgments as of yet until we hear more and things get sifted out.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

[Stephentlig]

Originally Posted by goat2

listening to the popes speech last evening on sky news

he mentioned the word repent
who did he mean should repent
shurely not the people these deadly crimes were comitted against
what should they repent for

by your post I assume your not Catholic because the lack of knowledge about the churches teaching on why everyone needs to repent often is evident in your post.

Here is a Cathechism, knock yourself out
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm