[dunleakelleher]

Originally Posted by wolfsbane

Do you think the RCC's institutional paedophilia is confined to Ireland? Or to Irish America?

But sure when the RCC ran out of diocese to sent these sick paedophile priests in Ireland we exported them overseas

God only knows what went on is some of the missions around the world at the hands of Irish paedophile priests. May God forgive us all.

[Outrage]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

He has now found himself in exactly that situation. He has acknowledged it and declared himself to be ashamed. At this point anything other than a resignation makes him a hypocrite and by keeping him in charge the church is being presided over by someone who thinks that the fact that it happened a long time ago and the fact that he apparently didn't have the authority to walk into a garda station to report a crime are excuses that should allow him to get off scot free, despite the fact that he kept his mouth shut for a further 18 years after the point when he supposedly had no authority. Someone like that is compromised, there is no way he can demand the resignation of anyone who was involved in the cover up because he has admitted being involved in it himself

You make it sound as if it would be so easy to simply "walk into a garda station" back at the time. Maybe the child's family didn't want the local Garda to know what happened. The point is that you don't know and I don't know, therefore it's all speculation. Cardinal Brady is not compromised. He is certainly humbled by all that has gone on, but not compromised. He is also evidently very deeply upset by all that has gone on, both as a Bishop and as a person. Cardinal Brady could have gotten all aggressive and defensive at the onslaught of criticism and anti-Church abuse thrown in his direction. But that is not in his nature - he is more of a lamb than an aggressive wolf. He is not afraid to apologise publicly to abuse victims, nor is he afraid to acknowledge wrong-doing that occurred in the Church before his time (as well as take responsibility for the short-comings that occur under his watch of the earthly institution full of human failings). I don't see what purpose forcing a great man such as Cardinal Brady into resignation would serve, apart from satisfying the insatiable appetite of the liberal media to see the Catholic Church ruined. He should stay. And God-willing, he will stay. I have every confidence in that.

Cardinal Brady is a role-model for any person in this country. He preaches the Gospel in such a soft-handed manner that is so effective. He is highly constrained in what he can and cannot do and is acutely aware of the sex abuse issue that he was tasked with addressing when he took office in 2007. Yet still, the message gets through. He is also not afraid to admit his mistakes publicly. The fact that he is such a popular man with so many admirers is no coincidence. The fact that he has risen to such a respected position in both the Church and society is no coincidence.

When I read the words of the Cardinal at St Patrick's Day Mass yesterday in the newspaper over lunch, I had shivers down my spine for over 5 seconds and almost started crying. Words almost never have that kind of effect on me.

[Stephentlig]

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/con...cardinal-brady

Priests support Cardinal Brady

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Outrage

You make it sound as if it would be so easy to simply "walk into a garda station" back at the time. Maybe the child's family didn't want the local Garda to know what happened.

If we can't depend on the church to do what's right even when it's difficult then what are they for?

Originally Posted by Outrage

Cardinal Brady is not compromised. He is certainly humbled by all that has gone on, but not compromised. He is also evidently very deeply upset by all that has gone on, both as a Bishop and as a person. Cardinal Brady could have gotten all aggressive and defensive at the onslaught of criticism and anti-Church abuse thrown in his direction. But that is not in his nature - he is more of a lamb than an aggressive wolf.

If he's not compromised then there is nothing to be gained from investigating the cover up because we've already decided that those who participated in it will face no repercussions. If he's not compromised then who is?

Originally Posted by Outrage

He is not afraid to apologise publicly to abuse victims, nor is he afraid to acknowledge wrong-doing that occurred in the Church before his time. I don't see what purpose forcing a great man such as Cardinal Brady into resignation would serve, apart from satisfying the insatiable appetite of the liberal media to see thtive. He is e Catholic Church ruined. He should stay. And God-willing, he will stay. I have every confidence in that.

He's not afraid to apologise but he is afraid to face the consequences of his actions. What would be served by his resignation is the same thing that is served every time someone is punished, he will be facing the consequences of his actions. If someone commits a crime and is convicted do you think the judge should first decide if any purpose will be served by sending them to prison before sentencing or is it enough to say that they committed a crime and should be punished?

Originally Posted by Outrage

Cardinal Brady is a role-model for any person in this country. He preaches the Gospel in such a soft-handed manner that is so effecalso not afraid to admit his mistakes publicly. The fact that he is such a popular man with so many admirers is no coincidence. The fact that he has risen to such a respected position in both the Church and society is no coincidence.

When I read the words of the Cardinal at St Patrick's Day Mass yesterday in the newspaper over lunch, I had shivers down my spine for over 5 seconds and almost started crying.

Cardinal Brady kept silent about sexual abuse for 18 years. He's a role model for no one

[philiporeilly]

Originally Posted by Outrage

You make it sound as if it would be so easy to simply "walk into a garda station" back at the time. Maybe the child's family didn't want the local Garda to know what happened. The point is that you don't know and I don't know, therefore it's all speculation. Cardinal Brady is not compromised. He is certainly humbled by all that has gone on, but not compromised. He is also evidently very deeply upset by all that has gone on, both as a Bishop and as a person. Cardinal Brady could have gotten all aggressive and defensive at the onslaught of criticism and anti-Church abuse thrown in his direction. But that is not in his nature - he is more of a lamb than an aggressive wolf. He is not afraid to apologise publicly to abuse victims, nor is he afraid to acknowledge wrong-doing that occurred in the Church before his time. I don't see what purpose forcing a great man such as Cardinal Brady into resignation would serve, apart from satisfying the insatiable appetite of the liberal media to see the Catholic Church ruined. He should stay. And God-willing, he will stay. I have every confidence in that.

Cardinal Brady is a role-model for any person in this country. He preaches the Gospel in such a soft-handed manner that is so effective. He is also not afraid to admit his mistakes publicly. The fact that he is such a popular man with so many admirers is no coincidence. The fact that he has risen to such a respected position in both the Church and society is no coincidence.

When I read the words of the Cardinal at St Patrick's Day Mass yesterday in the newspaper over lunch, I had shivers down my spine for over 5 seconds and almost started crying. Words almost never have that kind of effect on me.

He may be a role model in your eyes but to many others he stood by and facilitated the rape and abuse of many children through his (and others) inaction and subsequent years of cover-up.

He did wrong and he now acknowledges that. If the church is to move on with child protect issues you can hardly expect him to lead it when all victim support groups state they have lost respect for him and are seeking his resignation.

He may have done 'his duty' as it was at the time but he failed to protect the most vulnerable in society and stood by in the decades afterwards while this was being covered up. Some role model for a 'man of god'!

[philiporeilly]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/con...cardinal-brady

Priests support Cardinal Brady

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

Also from the same article....

''His credibility is in tatters. How will he stand before parents at Confirmation now. Thankfully, however, the number of faithful at Masses hasn't fallen because people can differentiate between 'priestianity' and their 'Christianity'.''

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by Outrage

You make it sound as if it would be so easy to simply "walk into a garda station" back at the time. Maybe the child's family didn't want the local Garda to know what happened.

Given the uproar that has happened since this revelation, one could safely make the presumption that were it the case that he was not to contact Gardai at the request of the victim's family, then he would say this publicly rather than have the victims follow up in a legal case against him.

Originally Posted by Outrage

Cardinal Brady is not compromised. He is certainly humbled by all that has gone on, but not compromised. He is also evidently very deeply upset by all that has gone on, both as a Bishop and as a person. Cardinal Brady could have gotten all aggressive and defensive at the onslaught of criticism and anti-Church abuse thrown in his direction. But that is not in his nature - he is more of a lamb than an aggressive wolf.

He is compromised. How can the public believe that his organisation should have any involvement with children or any involvement in a process of healing when he and his organisation vehemently keeps the public unaware of past actions.

As for his upset, is it as a result of guilt or is it purely because he doesn't like negative headlines? Could his pain be worse that that of the victims who should have been protected from monsters like Smith

Originally Posted by Outrage

He is not afraid to apologise publicly to abuse victims, nor is he afraid to acknowledge wrong-doing that occurred in the Church before his time. I don't see what purpose forcing a great man such as Cardinal Brady into resignation would serve, apart from satisfying the insatiable appetite of the liberal media to see the Catholic Church ruined.

An apology is worthless if it isn't sincere. Like all revelations about the RCC and child abuse, it wasn't given willingly by them but was extracted painfully by external people/agencies. This episode would not be in the public arena were it not for the fact that a victim has decided to sue him personally.
His organisation frustrated (this being a mild term) previous inquiries. Why? Sure if there was true sorrow and guilt then why hide the facts? Why did scum like Desmond Connell try and actively stop (through legal means) unsuccesfully the revelation of abuse documents?
The "liberal media" are doing their job. The only reason they are able to do it is because the Church didn't do theirs. The church made this mess not the public, the media or indeed the victims. Please don't try and twist this because you disagree with it or have a different agenda.

Originally Posted by Outrage

He should stay. And God-willing, he will stay. I have every confidence in that.

I pray that you are wrong! If anything, the Catholic Church in this country trust. At the moment he is in no position to offer this.

Originally Posted by Outrage

Cardinal Brady is a role-model for any person in this country. He preaches the Gospel in such a soft-handed manner that is so effective. He is also not afraid to admit his mistakes publicly. The fact that he is such a popular man with so many admirers is no coincidence. The fact that he has risen to such a respected position in both the Church and society is no coincidence.

A role model?
Should I strive to be someone who allows someone who preys on the weakest in our society to remain free to continue their evil acts? Should I put the fear of God into children so that they do not tarnish the good name of my club?
As for his respected position in society - I have no respect for him. I have no respect for his boss over in Rome. I have every respect for God but don't believe that they represent him. How do you know how popular and respected he is - I don't recall any surveys being done.
As for his respected position within the Church, answer me this - would he have reached this level had he gone to the Gardai and reported Smith?

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by kbannon

This episode would not be in the public arena were it not for the fact that a victim has decided to sue him personally.

Which also doesn't fit with the idea that this person's parents told Brady not to go to the gardai

[TravelJunkie]

outrage.
You seem to be spending a lot of time defending fr Brady.

What about defending Christ?

The priests' sins are worse because, they claim to represent Christ, and therefore they sin against the Holy Spirit.

And in other arguments, aren't Catholics saying that you have to practise righteousness to be saved? Well, how does the clergy (not all, just the guilty ones) fit into that?

Another thing, there is nothing wrong with judging people if you are a Catholic christian. There is such a thing as righteous judgement.
Even you, even thought you are trying to defend them now,
deep down, might question these people.
They are just men.

[Stephentlig]

The following is another interesting article to take note of I thought.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

"Last week it looked like the Church was starting something of a fight-back against the relentless attacks on it. Today, it suddenly looks very different again with Cardinal Sean Brady under huge pressure to resign over Fr Brendan Smyth.

I have mixed feelings about this and haven't yet come to a firm conviction one way or the other. But here is an initial thought. Any system of justice must be even-handed. A justice system that uses the law against one group but not another isn't being just at all. Instead it is engaged in injustice.

The media often try to act as a surrogate for the justice system. They see themselves as a dispenser of justice. As often as not, however, the media pick on one group and not another.

With respect to the abuse scandals, the media have not been at all even-handed. The Church gets regularly singled out. As I have argued in this blog before, Gerry Adams got off very lightly when it was discovered he knew about abuse complaints against his brother.

The defenders of Roman Polanski, among them prominent Irish artists, remain unembarrassed by their defence because the media have not targetted them over it.

No-one in the HSE is ever named and shamed, let alone resigns, because of failures to protect children, even failures that result in the death of a child.

If Sean Brady must resign, then the same standard that is being applied to him, must be applied to everyone, including HSE staff, teachers, school principals, gardai, everyone. Justice demands an even standard, evenly applied. That is not happening at the moment."
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/con...inal-brady-row

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

The following is another interesting article to take note of I thought.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

I absolutely agree that everyone who participated in any cover up of child abuse should be punished but does the fact that not every criminal is targeted by the media mean that the ones who are shouldn't be punished?

[Glenster]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

Cardinal Brady kept silent about sexual abuse for 18 years. He's a role model for no one

He's clearly just having a laugh, dont be so earnest about everything.





Joking about child abuse is wrong.. DUHHHH!

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Glenster

He's clearly just having a laugh, dont be so earnest about everything.

Have I been a victim of Poe's law

"Poe's Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane. Conversely, real fundamentalism can easily be mistaken for a parody of fundamentalism. For example, some conservatives consider noted homophobe Fred Phelps to be so over-the-top that they argue he's a "deep cover liberal" trying to discredit more mainstream homophobes. "

Originally Posted by Glenster

Joking about child abuse is wrong.. DUHHHH!

I don't think so, I think the jokes are hilarious.

[Stephentlig]

Originally Posted by Sam Vimes

I absolutely agree that everyone who participated in any cover up of child abuse should be punished but does the fact that not every criminal is targeted by the media mean that the ones who are shouldn't be punished?

Of course, however I do believe that his eminence Cardinal Sean Brady commited a blunder that contained no malicious intent of cover up.

I forgive him for the blunder ( MAJOR BLUNDER ) made and I'm behind him for not resigning, however should he resign this will have to be due to his own conscience as to whether he thinks he should or not.

If the rule applies to him then it must apply to all who failed to act, but this does not seem to be the case at the moment.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

[Sam Vimes]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

Of course, however I do believe that his eminence Cardinal Sean Brady commited a blunder that contained no malicious intent of cover up.

I forgive him for the blunder ( MAJOR BLUNDER ) made and I'm behind him for not resigning, however should he resign this will have to be due to his own conscience as to whether he thinks he should or not.

If the rule applies to him then it must apply to all who failed to act, but this does not seem to be the case at the moment.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

But if he tries to argue that he should keep his job despite admitting to what you say is a major blunder then surely the position of the catholic church in Ireland is that the rules should apply to no one?