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23-03-2010, 10:33   #31
niloc1951
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Originally Posted by cork_south View Post
The best thing to do with Dunkettle is knock it down and start again.
Ya, think Red Cow, M50, Kinsale Rd Roundabout, Newlands Cross, Port Tunnel, M'ways without rest/service areas, and more. Why can't the NRA, Dep's. of Transport/Enviornment get it right first day, it's not like this kind of stuff has not been done successfully years ago elsewhere in Europe, What kind of insular fools are populating those agencies/departments.
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23-03-2010, 10:46   #32
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Dunkettle is a 20 year old design...if not more...and was adequate in the 1990's and was then upgraded in the last 5 years.

They cannot do a really big upgrade until the NRR is finished as an alternative route around it for Intercity traffic and the big push should therefore be to get the M20/Cork NRR done to clear the decks for a big Dunkettle upgrade in the late 2020's or so.
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23-03-2010, 11:44   #33
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Dunkettle is a 20 year old design...if not more...and was adequate in the 1990's and was then upgraded in the last 5 years.

They cannot do a really big upgrade until the NRR is finished as an alternative route around it for Intercity traffic and the big push should therefore be to get the M20/Cork NRR done to clear the decks for a big Dunkettle upgrade in the late 2020's or so.
The Jack Lynch Tunnel and Roundabout should not be confused with the Dunkettle Roundabout.
The latter has been in existence for as long as I can remember and was part of the 'old' N8 route.
The former intersection was only opened eleven years ago and was in need of alteration within a few years.
BTW a '20 year old design...if not more' is no excuse, it is just the wrong design, who in their right mind would put a traffic light controlled roundabout on the intersection of two of the most heavily trafficed routes in the country.
As the saying goes 'if you fail to plan, you plan to fail'
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23-03-2010, 11:47   #34
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Forgot that

Nevertheless the problems along the river east of Cork will best be solved after the NRR is finished, so live with them.
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23-03-2010, 12:29   #35
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The roundabout was in existance prior to the traffic lights. The traffic lights were/are a stop gap measure until the Dunkettle Interchange upgrade is completed.

Aside from the usual funding issues there are a number of third parties that are complicating issues. As mentioned the North Ring needs to be finalised for one. Another is Irish Rail. And, finally there is Michael O'Flynn and his Dunkettle House scheme which is an ABP at the moment.
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23-03-2010, 13:01   #36
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Originally Posted by niloc1951 View Post
The Jack Lynch Tunnel and Roundabout should not be confused with the Dunkettle Roundabout.
The latter has been in existence for as long as I can remember and was part of the 'old' N8 route.
The former intersection was only opened eleven years ago and was in need of alteration within a few years.
BTW a '20 year old design...if not more' is no excuse, it is just the wrong design, who in their right mind would put a traffic light controlled roundabout on the intersection of two of the most heavily trafficed routes in the country.
As the saying goes 'if you fail to plan, you plan to fail'
The Dunkettle Interchange (as oppossed to the Dunkettle Roundabout) has been there significantly longer than 11 years (its actually 18 years old)

It was first constructed (without flyover) in 1992 for the opening of the Glanmire bypass. A few years later (in anticipation of the Jack Lynch Tunnel opening) they constructed the flyover going West - East. About 3 or 4 years ago they then signalised the interchange.

Hence, in its 18 year existance it went from

1. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists (1992)
2. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists with a flyover (circa 1998)
3. A roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (opening of Tunnel) (circa 1999)
4. A signalised roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (2006)

Last edited by AugustusMinimus; 23-03-2010 at 13:04.
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23-03-2010, 15:01   #37
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God knows where the money is coming from as this isnt a PPP as far as I know, and since there was no money (at all) available for starting publicly funded schemes in 2010 and probably 2011 I'd be dubious about this until I see tender notices.
You've been repeating this mantra about funding till you're blue in the face Chris, but I'm not seeing any evidence for it - where are you getting yours?
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Agree with all this and will add one further - how could they upgrade the Kinsale Road roundabout and leave the Sarsfields and Bandon road roundabouts as they are?
The reason is that the original plan was to do both consecutively, but here we are.
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Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
They cannot do a really big upgrade until the NRR is finished as an alternative route around it for Intercity traffic and the big push should therefore be to get the M20/Cork NRR done to clear the decks for a big Dunkettle upgrade in the late 2010's or so.
I corrected that for you.
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1. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists (1992)
2. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists with a flyover (circa 1998)
3. A roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (opening of Tunnel) (circa 1999)
4. A signalised roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (2006)
5. A little freeflower like this
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23-03-2010, 16:40   #38
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You've been repeating this mantra about funding till you're blue in the face Chris, but I'm not seeing any evidence for it - where are you getting yours?
Because the country is borrowing an absolute mountain of money every week just to keep going. Also, how ~98 road projects got postponed. How the MSAs got postponed. And how anything up to 10 road projects are finishing at the moment and NONE are starting. There has been only 1 new start in 2009 and 2010, that being Castleisland. The government simply havent got the money to fund capital projects at the moment.
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23-03-2010, 20:27   #39
niloc1951
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Originally Posted by AugustusMinimus View Post
The Dunkettle Interchange (as oppossed to the Dunkettle Roundabout) has been there significantly longer than 11 years (its actually 18 years old)

It was first constructed (without flyover) in 1992 for the opening of the Glanmire bypass. A few years later (in anticipation of the Jack Lynch Tunnel opening) they constructed the flyover going West - East. About 3 or 4 years ago they then signalised the interchange.

Hence, in its 18 year existance it went from

1. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists (1992)
2. A roundabout with 3 entries/exists with a flyover (circa 1998)
3. A roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (opening of Tunnel) (circa 1999)
4. A signalised roundabout with 4 entries/exists with a flyover (2006)
So, back in 1992 those who designed the Glanmire by-pass and associated infrastructure had no idea that there might be furure plans to build the tunnel and the SRR and traffic volumes would increase as this country developed its economy .
The only thing the administrators of this country seem to be good at is the 'sure that'll do for now' mentality as exemplified by the fact that the JL roundabout had to be 'modified' 4 times and still needs further redesign work, or perhaps we have mysteriously spawned a class of people devoid of a vision of the future and how to plan for it who have all come to inhabit the offices responsible for planning this country's infrastructure.
Not to worry though, our current infrastructure is now future-proofed by accident because economically we are likely to regress fifteen or twenty years before we get going again .
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23-03-2010, 22:28   #40
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If the Glanmire Bypass opened in 1992 then it would have been designed in the mid to late 1980's.
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23-03-2010, 22:31   #41
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The Glanmire Bypass will be fine for the forseeable future. Our problem has never really been road capacity, but road interchanges, we just... can't get them right... ever.
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23-03-2010, 22:50   #42
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The Glanmire Bypass will be fine for the forseeable future. Our problem has never really been road capacity, but road interchanges, we just... can't get them right... ever.
Very true.

On the point of grade seperation on the remaining rounabouts on the SRR, causing a traffic snarl up at the dunkettle interchange, I'd suggest that this wouldn't happen. Similar predictions were made for northbound traffic approaching Newlands Cross after the N7 was finally grade seperated from Naas onwards. The removal of lights from Johnstown and Kill had no noticeable effect on congestion at Newlands despite predictions of same.
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23-03-2010, 23:26   #43
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On the point of grade seperation on the remaining rounabouts on the SRR, causing a traffic snarl up at the dunkettle interchange, I'd suggest that this wouldn't happen. Similar predictions were made for northbound traffic approaching Newlands Cross after the N7 was finally grade seperated from Naas onwards. The removal of lights from Johnstown and Kill had no noticeable effect on congestion at Newlands despite predictions of same.
I tend to agree. The Sarsfield rd roundabout is a fair distance from the Dunkettle interchange and with all the junctions in between that allows traffic on and off i also suspect there will be little impact.
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23-03-2010, 23:48   #44
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I tend to agree. The Sarsfield rd roundabout is a fair distance from the Dunkettle interchange and with all the junctions in between that allows traffic on and off i also suspect there will be little impact.
So when traffic is backed up eastbound as far as Douglas, and with the SRR flyovers complete, the unhindered traffic travelling east will not add to the queue? You can't get to the exits between Kinsale road r/a and the tunnel because theres already a two lane 5 km tailback in front of you!

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that this project isnt top priority. But in reality all its doing is moving the peak time eastbound traffic problem a few km up the road.
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24-03-2010, 01:37   #45
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So when traffic is backed up eastbound as far as Douglas, and with the SRR flyovers complete, the unhindered traffic travelling east will not add to the queue? You can't get to the exits between Kinsale road r/a and the tunnel because theres already a two lane 5 km tailback in front of you!

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that this project isnt top priority. But in reality all its doing is moving the peak time eastbound traffic problem a few km up the road.
I've seen it back up past the flyover on the Kinsale Road Roundabout.

IMO, its not unfeasible to think it may backup to the flyover of the Sarsfield Road roundabout whenever that's done.
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